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‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

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Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#41

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

On one hand, senior people who moved overseas have already established their life in the EU or US, have a family and children, etc.

Also, people who move away generally do so for reasons beyond money. Like you say, even a mid-senior role pays very well for Latam, but people end up moving for things like safety (most Latam cities are generally much less safe), education (quality education is difficult to come by in many countries), or career advancement (unfortunately most companies won't accept executive roles in Latam, or will do so at Latam salaries which are actually a step down).

In my personal experience, with a third of my friends having moved overseas, career advancement and getting away from difficult situations make up most of the reasons for not coming back. Friends who've experienced traumatic robberies or violent situations or who come from broken families generally want to get away from that and career advancement and money just end up being the excuse.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#42

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

>If you are in such position, have you considered it?

Yes. I actually broke into software development while living in Mexico.

Prior to that, in a tent. I realized the cost of living would be cheaper in Mexico while I worked on a full stack app (the app's ultimate purpose was simply to demo my skill during interviews). Once the app was almost done, I moved back to the US, and a couple months later landed my first 100% programming job.

>If so, what is stopping you right now?

I've spent 1.5 years now, living in Mexico-- Playa Rosarito, Bucerias, Tepic, CDMX, Tulum.

I am strongly considering moving back to the Bucerias area to explore more of the West Coast-- Mazatlan to Huatulco, for example, by scooter, since I was recently laid off.

I'm on the fence about committing to Mexico or any of Latin America for the rest of my life.

Mainly due to:

- Inconveniences: Not having drinking water available in houses-- every few days, I'd estimate 90% of people in Mexico take water jugs to fill up at a public tap-- Much as you'd see in a textbook documentary about a refugee village in rural Africa. Though perhaps with a good filtration system it's possible to purify water at home.

- The culture around Noise: People advertise in the street by shouting or playing annoying loud announcements from loudspeakers

- The culture around Pollution: using chemicals without protection or with disregard about potential impact on human health. Examples: airbnb host using pesticide (RAID brand) indoors. construction worker friends applying pesticide outside without any protective gear and without warning anyone to close their windows for 15-30 mins to avoid inhaling the airborne pesticide mist. Plus lack of waste system infrastructure means you find a lot of trash in the urban and even rural environment (people dump trash into holes in the ground along rural roads, for example, due to no landfills or trash-pickup service existing in many areas).

- Low interest in education & industriousness (though I am sure this is changing). Especially if compared to the culture around achievement in South Asia & East Asia. It makes it a bit challenging to make friends with people at similar education & career attainment levels that I'd have if I stayed in the US.

- Crime & lack of justice: the vast majority of crime goes unpunished. Vigilante justice happens. There's a general sense of lawlessness, especially when police officers & judges can be bribed.

That said, I'm still on the fence.

I prefer a society which is quiet, industrious, conscientious and well educated.

Mexico isn't quite there yet, but hopefully it'll be significantly closer to the US levels of those things in the next 2-5 decades.

It does offer: A friendly culture. Great food. Adventures.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#43

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

You can have the same with that income in the USA assuming you don't live in Seattle or SF. You can live in Indiana or Texas. Brazil doesn't exactly have a great reputation.

If you come from a decent Latam metropolis like Buenos Aires or Santiago and make use of the urban facilities (ie you like going out, being close to universities and airports and various activities), anything beyond top-tier US cities is a real step down in quality of life.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#44
post #17
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Average skill of LATAM devs is still low compared to the US I'd say it is a sample bias of the developers working as contractors (average devs with good enough English). Top LATAM talent moves abroad or works as employees at international companies that pay way more than nearshores.

There is a lot of top Latam talent who want to stay in Latam because of family and culture issues, and also because earning in US$ while working remote from Latin America can provide a much higher quality of life than you would be able to get in the US.

Yes, that's actually my case. But, getting a salary on par with your skill set may require you to work directly with the employer or a lot of negotiation.

I've seen cases of top developers earning almost 50% less than their peers because they were hired via subcontractors.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Could you explain more what you mean with Americans & Indians having different definitions of "no"?

In Indian culture, it is considered rude to say "No", so you will never get a direct No from them. "Can you do this?" - "Yes, I'll do my best" most likely means that you won't get what you asked for.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#46

This has been happening for quite a while now, I'm in Brazil and most of my career (11 out of 17 years) was built working for companies in the US and eventually Europe. I know many that followed the same path. One thing that I'm surprised is not happening more, and I'd love to hear your comments about the reasons, is the move of senior engineers from places with high cost of living to countries with much lower cost o…

I wonder if a big reason is that it is very uncomfortable to move somewhere where you will be in the 1% elite of the local area. My kids would be singled out, our friends/peers would be few and far between. There would probably be few activities for the kid, and so on. This is what a high CoL area gets you.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#47

I can speak for Mexico. We have so much going for it. 1. A robust manufacturing economy (unlike the rest of LATAM) right on the border with the #1 consumer. 2. A culture that is easy to digest for Americans and Europeans alike. 3. People that are welcoming of foreigners, and used to them thanks to decades of tourism. 4. A relatively educated and increasingly educated population. 5. A very comprehensive free trade agr…

What is the situation with cartels? I like the idea of Mexico but tbf I'm terrified of even visiting for tourism because of the shooting/kidnapping stories. For example for the '24 eclipse I'm just sticking to Texas

Lots of shark attacks too

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

100%! I've worked with a ton of great Indian folks, but the "no" cultural translation is hard . Just yesterday I was working through an issue, came up with a clear plan that critically involved notifying the customer before making any changes, after they'd been burned by previous uncommunicated changes. Was in the middle of a busy day, so I didn't think and quickly asked if there were any problems or everyone was onb…

I don't really get this anecdote, this seems less like someone having a different definition of "no" and more like just ignoring you (which happens all the time, it's hard to listen to everything in a workplace slack)

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

The hire-slow, fire-fast paradigm might be an employers dream, but it is _terrible_ for employees. In the worst-case situation you end up quitting your job and maybe even moving to be let go with little warning? That's rough. I think if the employer wants to fire someone, they _should_ be paying for severance.

Re: ‘Nearshoring’ Push Is Fueling Tech Job Demand in Latin America

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The skill isn't even an issue - you just hire them for the right roles. Having the same definition of "no" as Americans is huge. Indians have a really tough time saying something isn't going well, or that we shouldn't do a project, for cultural reasons. That's great! Culture is great. For work though, something closer to the culture of the outsourcer makes it a lot easier to deal with. Flights are also so muc…

Mexico is going to need to change their labor laws if they want a big piece of this pie. I’ve had a nearshore team in Mexico for four years the people are great for all the reasons mentioned. The gap, however is costs. We’re used to “at-will” employment in the states are used to a “Hire slow, fire fast” paradigm. In MX the cost to fire a full time employee is 3 months severance (regardless of seniority) plus 20 days…

It hadn't occurred to me that some people were hiring nearshore employees directly. I thought it was all contractors, in part to smooth out the regulatory differences
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