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Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

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Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#351

Post by incomingpain »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #319

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

Pakistan is the only true Muslim country in the world. There is no 'too religious'. I think you're missing the much larger picture. All of the conflict in that area is connected.

Turkey is melting down because of their public positions on various matters; especially Xinjiang; not to mention poor decisions around fiscal policy.

Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'm optimistic it should stabilize pakistan.

Karakoram highway is a huge deal. The probability it doesn't get blown up is quite low.

Kashmir matters no doubt, but this will make talks between the 2 nuclear powers never happen.

Khalistan/Punjab, I must admit I'm surprised how many gurdwars are flying the khalistan flags here in Canada. It's their last chance for at least a generation if they want it to happen. It's not going to happen this time, they likely popped this movement. Some entity pushed it too soon.

Ladakh conflicts... Basically China isn't happy about a road being built toward them in ladakh. 250,000 indian troops vs 60,000 chinese troops accidentally collided... 3 times. But dont worry it was just 'melee' or 'skirmish' and was no big deal... India proceeded to ban all of china's internet things. China has been a sleeping tiger for decades and they wake up to attack india? Interesting. Not saying they are wrong, but China also understands why and what's going on.

Everything points to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/02/why-erdogan-has-abandon...

But more importantly we are 4 days away from the turkish election. Erdogan is likely to lose.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#352

Post by George83728 »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #294
usernew wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

There are no "EU citizens" only citizens of EU member countries. None of those countries have freedom of speech as expansive as Americans but Americans in practice also don't have absolute freedom of speech. 1) Certain speech such as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" has long been considered illegal. 2) The US has much more expansive laws about "conspiracy to..." which make it illegal to have certain conversations…

> 1) Certain speech such as "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" has long been considered illegal.

This was a serious curtailment to free speech. "shouting fire in a crowded theater" was a euphemism for telling people to dodge the draft during WWI, making this restriction an overt curtailment of free political speech. Thankfully though, this was overturned several decades ago. The current standard is that you can't "incite imminent lawless action", so for instance it's not legal to say "Hey everybody, let's lynch Mvandenbergh from that tree right now!" But to your point, this is still a restriction on free speech, it's not an absolute right in America. You are correct on that point.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#353

Post by Haga »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #319

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

[dead]

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#354

Post by PontifexMinimus »

usernew wrote: post #157
skeaker wrote: post #6

I would like to believe there is a future where blocking access to the internet is unilaterally impossible. Major powers being able to pull the rug on what has become a foundation of modern society like this is too scary of a thing to allow. What could the answer be? Satellite-powered relays and DIY-able user devices to talk to them?

What you suggest is impossible, because you are attacking a wrench on the head problem with a coding solution. You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail. Now if we solve for the real issue - lack of freedom because of a ruling class, the tech…

> You can always get a dish and connect to your choice of orbital provider, if your ISP - which is regulated - is blocked. The problem is, guys with guns will come to your door, beat you with a wrench, and put you in jail.

They have to catch you first.

What if every computing device sold in the West came as standard with built in, secure mesh networking and ability to uplink to satellites?

Then governments like Pakistan would have to use those computers, and lose the ability to control what their people say.

Alternatively, they could:

(1) not use computers, dooming their country to perpetual poverty

(2) come up with their own solution, and they're too small an economy to come up with one that isn't backward

(3) buy a solution from another autocracy, such as China -- and doom their country to be forever controlled by China

The problem with this idea is that the West doesn't want every compute to come with built in secure mesh networking, because they want to snoop on their people too. But if they did go for this idea, because they're a freer society than their competitors (China and Russia, mainly) it would give them a massive advantage.

> the oppression of you can simply come from a majority (EU citizens have no freedom of speech)

That's a gross over-simplification. EU citizens have a good deal more freedom of speech than in most societies that've ever existed; and in every society there are things you might say that will get you in serious trouble.

> There is no answer, because many people want to control and silence others who don't agree

A lot do; these people are stupid and if they were more sensible they would realise that among societies, there is a strong correlation between amount of freedom of speech and how nice the place is to live in.

> Most people are bootlickers. Most people want the type of power structure that ends up with the internet blocked. They don't want freedom - they want to be on the side doing the oppressing.

They imagine they will be the person wielding the fist and not the person being punched by it.

In truth it will be the ruling class doing the restrictions on freedom. And because power corrupts, even if the ruling class start off as perfectly moral and just people (ha!) they won't stay that way for long.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#355

Post by Spooky23 »

xupybd wrote: post #173
Spooky23 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need some controls. The death of licensed broadcast and high capital investment media like newspapers has damaged society. The notion that modern Nazis would have access to thousands of people was absurd in 1983. In 2023 it’s reality.

I really don't think we are seeing an increase in Nazis in 2023.

Take a ride in the countryside someday.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#356

Post by EricHolden12 »

incomingpain wrote: post #351
sashank_1509 wrote: post #319

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

Pakistan is the only true Muslim country in the world. There is no 'too religious'. I think you're missing the much larger picture. All of the conflict in that area is connected. Turkey is melting down because of their public positions on various matters; especially Xinjiang; not to mention poor decisions around fiscal policy. Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'…

>Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'm optimistic it should stabilize pakistan.

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahaha.

By this, your definition of stabilize is that the USA is again more firmly in command of Pakistan as a country. Khan is an antagonist who tried and failed to get Pakistan to be truly independent and not controlled by any other nation. Pakistan is unfortunately a pawn in geopolitical moves, and with his arrest the stooges in place will happily bend and dance for the powers that be as long as they can pocket a tidy sum.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#357

Post by George83728 »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #295
varjag wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not clear how many died in TSquare but it's a few thousands at most. That's very far from the hundred of millions of people China has. Mao did kill off millions in the Great Leap, with no dissent.

Afaik it was not "planned" unlike Stalin and Beria's NKVD - Mao ordered crows killed to increase crop yields not thinking about the consequences of remove a predator from an ecosystem because the smart folks were either ignorant or afraid of going to a re-education camp. Mass starvation.

Under Mao's rule, millions of people were overtly executed. It wasn't just Mao's incompetence that got people killed accidentally. He ordered millions of people to be murdered.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#358

Post by local_crmdgeon »

incomingpain wrote: post #351
sashank_1509 wrote: post #319

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

Pakistan is the only true Muslim country in the world. There is no 'too religious'. I think you're missing the much larger picture. All of the conflict in that area is connected. Turkey is melting down because of their public positions on various matters; especially Xinjiang; not to mention poor decisions around fiscal policy. Pakistan and Khan mess. Super happy they finally arrested him. We shall see how it goes, I'…

The first line is a strong claim, and KSA as well as Iran would disagree.

Pakistan may say the have Sharia, but hadd is rarely enforced as far as I know. Theft is common and so are gangs.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#359

Post by local_crmdgeon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #254
yipbub wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was complicit in the Gujurat riots ethnic cleansing[0] Demonetization was a scheme to enrich his billionaire friends and party[0]. There's a lot more, and being the PM he hasn't allowed the media to question him. He only appears in staged interviews singing his praises or speeches. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_riots [1] https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/bjp-members-kne...

> Gujurat riots ethnic cleansing…Demonetization…only appears in staged interviews singing his praises or speeches None of this is corruption. Authoritarianism. Populism, perhaps. But not fraudulent, not bribery, and not corruption.

This is how I see it as well - the ethnic cleansing/riot stuff isn't some secret, it's a big part of his appeal to his base.

Re: Internet disrupted in Pakistan amid arrest of former PM Imran Khan

#360

Post by [deleted] »

victor106 wrote: post #324
sashank_1509 wrote: post #319

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me why the military keeps intervening. Is this basically the same situation as Turkey had where the military was commanded on Turkey’s founding by the Ataturk to prevent a religious fundamentalist takeover of the country, and so whenever they felt the elected government was becoming too “religious”, they deposed the government (now of course erdogan is in control, because he ensur…

I am sorry to say but at this point Pakistan is a failed state. It’s fascinating to see how India just leaped ahead of Pakistan even though they both got independence at the same time and were essentially the same people divided based on religion. I hate to say this but maybe there’s something to be said about religion here.

[deleted]
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