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US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

theguardian.com

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Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#141

Post by tourmalinetaco »

test098 wrote: post #139
tourmalinetaco wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All polls You mean the same polls that said Trump had no chance in 2016? >controls are being removed with horrible and predictable results Ignoring the objective fact that disarming legal citizens does nothing to quell armed crime, what controls have been removed, and what were these “horrible” results? If anything more gun control has happened in the last 8 years, what with banning bump stocks, % lowers, the attemp…

> Ignoring the objective fact that disarming legal citizens does nothing to quell armed crime citation needed. what's the one unique thing about the united states that makes it #1 in mass shootings? banning bump stocks or other band-aid solutions are not going to make any kind of significant dent in mass murders.

>citation needed

Simple logic. Guns are manufactured outside of the US throughout the entirety of Central and South America, and can be made extremely cheaply using simple parts from a home improvement store. The only way to remove guns from criminals hands is to completely block all border movement to/from Mexico and ban all Home Depots and related stores federally.

> united states… #1 in mass shootings

More information required. Considering we’re only 32nd highest in the world for gun crime[0], I highly doubt we have less annual incidents than Venezuela and El Salvador. Especially since according to my research only 12 countries have recorded mass shootings[1], most of which contain extensive gun control. Thus without mass killings to compare it to, and lacking information of countries with similar/worse rates of gun homicides, makes “mass shootings” a flawed metric used only to push narratives.

[0] - https://web.archive.org/web/20230418110343/https://www.npr.o...

[1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20230506023629/https://wisevoter...

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#142

Post by peterfirefly »

jackmott42 wrote: post #34
GoodDomainName wrote: post #31

[flagged]

Depends where you are if doing so represents an upgrade in safety, I live here and really want to get out, not so much due to shootings but general political corruption.

Your strange reply to me in another thread was flagged and removed immediately -- not by me, btw.

Pray tell why you think I am "a garbage person"?

We seem to agree on energy policy (and I just upvoted one of your comments), so maybe you are also "a garbage person" ;)

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#143

Post by 6510 »

11101010001100 wrote: post #138
6510 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guns are there to make sure the public servants don't become the master. At least, that was the idea.

Doesn't seem to be working does it?

To estimate that we would need some unit or scale of how bad things can possibly get. I don't want to think about it.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#144

Post by WillPostForFood »

igetspam wrote: post #135
WillPostForFood wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the article is combining suicide and murder to come up with a combined "gun violence" metric. It is not a relevant statistic when talking about crime specifically.

Technically suicide is a crime and shooting yourself with a gun is a violent act, so... Seems about right

Technically suicide is a crime

No it isn't, not in any of the 50 states is it a crime.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#145

Post by rstuart4133 »

plugger wrote: post #140
porkbeer wrote: post #102

Disturbing to see so many in favor of removing our bedrock rights because they are afraid of a tool. Nobody wants to end up like the UK or Australia in terms of reduced rights. That was literally the impetus for the creation of the USA.

Tiring to see so many Americans continually ignore the fact that guns, shooting enthusiasts, and hunters all still exist in Australia. Just a simple google search would reveal shooting clubs exist across this continent. Sure, shooters are not out there with a full auto Barrett 50 (which, funnily enough is now Australian owned) going rock and roll on the local fauna. But guns exist here, they're in people's homes, and…

Guns, shooting enthusiasts and some people owning lots of guns (I know someone who lives in Brisbane, Australia, with 40 in his home) all exist in many countries. Yet the USA is the singularly the gun death problem.

It's pretty clear the difference isn't the presence of guns, or the "restrictions" (in Brisbane you need a licence that boils down to knowing gun safety), it's an attitude. The attitude in the US seems to be it's perfectly acceptable to use a gun for self defence, up to and including killing someone. In the rest of the world we are happy to delegate killing people for crimes to the government, so under no circumstances is it legal to threaten someone with a gun, let alone shoot them. Accordingly the rest of the world's population is happy to have fairly mild restrictions on gun use that allows their use for anything (sport, farming, game hunting, ...) bar personal protection from other people.

I suspect the person you are respond would disagree violently on this one point. To them the entire point of owning a gun is self defence. They insist they must have the right to kill someone.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#146

Post by plugger »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #145
plugger wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiring to see so many Americans continually ignore the fact that guns, shooting enthusiasts, and hunters all still exist in Australia. Just a simple google search would reveal shooting clubs exist across this continent. Sure, shooters are not out there with a full auto Barrett 50 (which, funnily enough is now Australian owned) going rock and roll on the local fauna. But guns exist here, they're in people's homes, and…

Guns, shooting enthusiasts and some people owning lots of guns (I know someone who lives in Brisbane, Australia, with 40 in his home) all exist in many countries. Yet the USA is the singularly the gun death problem. It's pretty clear the difference isn't the presence of guns, or the "restrictions" (in Brisbane you need a licence that boils down to knowing gun safety), it's an attitude. The attitude in the US seems to…

I agree. As an expat yank I've seen both sides. I was raised in a gun heavy household and had a loaded Sig P229 and MAK-90 in my bedroom at 18.

Moving to Australia and realising I didn't like to live life with 'my head on a swivel' was quite a revelation. And the laws around proportional use of force down here are a refreshing change to the 'shoot the person and drag them in your house to claim self defense' American mentality. You'd end up being charged with murder doing that here, and rightfully so imho.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#147

Post by trasz4 »

dang wrote: post #129
trasz4 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No one associated with YC flagged this article; the mods didn't even see it. It was flagged by a large number of users. This was purely a community response, and others have already pointed out what is doubtless the reason. (edit: one of the flaggers was a YC alum from 14 years ago - I'm adding that for completeness, but it doesn't change the point) > Some things are encouraged, eg being racist towards Chinese I've p…

>No one associated with YC flagged this article

But there's no transparency, so there's no reason to assume it's true and not just the usual corporate PR.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#148

Post by DoreenMichele »

trasz4 wrote: post #147
dang wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one associated with YC flagged this article; the mods didn't even see it. It was flagged by a large number of users. This was purely a community response, and others have already pointed out what is doubtless the reason. (edit: one of the flaggers was a YC alum from 14 years ago - I'm adding that for completeness, but it doesn't change the point) > Some things are encouraged, eg being racist towards Chinese I've p…

>No one associated with YC flagged this article But there's no transparency, so there's no reason to assume it's true and not just the usual corporate PR.

For the record, I downvoted this. I have zero association with YC.

Posted in the interest of providing you the transparency you desire.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#149

Post by dang »

trasz4 wrote: post #147
dang wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one associated with YC flagged this article; the mods didn't even see it. It was flagged by a large number of users. This was purely a community response, and others have already pointed out what is doubtless the reason. (edit: one of the flaggers was a YC alum from 14 years ago - I'm adding that for completeness, but it doesn't change the point) > Some things are encouraged, eg being racist towards Chinese I've p…

>No one associated with YC flagged this article But there's no transparency, so there's no reason to assume it's true and not just the usual corporate PR.

Mods answering questions is a form of transparency. I get that you might not believe us, but you could just as easily disbelieve any other form of transparency.

In my experience, the bulk of the community is willing to believe that we tell the truth about HN moderation, if only because it would be stupid and reckless not to. Literally the only value HN has to YC is the good will of the community. To jeopardize that for a little more moderation convenience, or whatever, would be a colossally dumb trade.

Believe it or not, our actual goal is never to do anything that isn't defensible to the community, such that if (heaven forbid) the entire HN dataset were ever published, there would be nothing inconsistent with what we've told the community over the years.

Why then, you or someone may ask, not just publish all the data? Two reasons: (1) we need to protect users; and (2) it would make it impossible to run the site.

Re: US on track to set record in 2023 for mass killings after series of shootings

#150

Post by trasz4 »

dang wrote: post #149
trasz4 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one associated with YC flagged this article But there's no transparency, so there's no reason to assume it's true and not just the usual corporate PR.

Mods answering questions is a form of transparency. I get that you might not believe us, but you could just as easily disbelieve any other form of transparency. In my experience, the bulk of the community is willing to believe that we tell the truth about HN moderation, if only because it would be stupid and reckless not to. Literally the only value HN has to YC is the good will of the community. To jeopardize that f…

>In my experience, the bulk of the community is willing to believe that we tell the truth

Indeed.

> if only because it would be stupid and reckless not to

Not really, even if it was somehow proven.

> the only value HN has to YC is the good will of the community.

That's called a brand, and other brands do fine despite lying to their customers. In fact it's often considered a core part of business.

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