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Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

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Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#181

Post by okamiueru »

borispavlovic wrote: post #180
okamiueru wrote: post #179

What I want to do is not have to have a unified build system for multiple platforms and ABIs without any problem, but for some reason, to target anything apple, I have to use a physical apple machine. It's absolutely abusing market position, because it ends up being that in my profession, you end up purchasing mac computers for the whole office, because then you can target all platforms without any fuss. Not because…

It's on the expensive side, I know, but have you considered using bitrise.io?

Thanks for the tip. We have considered it. Its likely the place to go once we iron out development/product. Its just unfortunate that the basics of such a CI setup is trivial to set up "in-house", for everything except software targeting apple hardware.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#182

Post by UberMouse »

sixothree wrote: post #134
Sytten wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cost a shit ton though because they have to run on mac mini AFAIK. It would most likely be way cheaper if there were to run on commodity hardware.

Pretty sure you also pay for them when they are shut down too.

Yes for renting an instance from AWS. Minimum lease time is 24H iirc. But that's not the case for Github Actions (and so I assume Azure Pipelines). You pay per minute, it's just 10x the cost of an Ubuntu instance.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#183

Post by ta_le »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #178
scrollaway wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be an additional poison? It's solving problems in my life. I have a calendar, it's synced across all my devices, I have no fear of lock-in, and I have full control over my data without fearing about my account getting locked (as I pay for Workspace). Same for email, same for contacts. What's the poison there?

Sounds like you’ve just chosen to lock yourself into a different vendor, only one that integrates less elegantly with your device.

There is no vendor lockin with Google when it comes to hardware, the services even work in a browser

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#184

Post by eptcyka »

thekevan wrote: post #151
ftyhbhyjnjk wrote: post #144

Good good. Apple has been abusing their dominant position for far too long. If it's my hardware, I'll do whatever tf I want. Apple can't do shit.

They weren't trying to tell you what to do with your machine, they were trying to tell you what you were not allowed to do with THEIR software.

I can't buy iOS, but I must use iOS to use the phone they sold me. This is legal, but just because something is legal doesn't necessarily mean that it's ethical or is good for all parties involved. The iOS emulator in Xcode is nothing short of dog shit, and it's not really an emulator as much as it's a halfway house reimplementation of iOS's userland for macOS. I don't believe there's any need to defend Apple's decision to deter people from running iOS anywhere and everywhere.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#185

Post by eptcyka »

musicale wrote: post #52
crazygringo wrote: post #51

Can someone remind me why Apple is so anti-VM in seemingly every instance? It just seems so arbitrary and unhelpful, and I have a hard time imagining that the amount of hardware purchased it forces outweigh the benefits from making macOS/iOS better platforms for development and computation. It just seems like such an odd stance to take.

Apple is not anti-VM. It is anti VM-on-non-Apple-hardware. ;-) Presumably they have determined that lost hardware sales would offset any increased app or service sales from allowing VMs on non-Apple hardware. Though I don't actually know what platform macOS and iOS VMs run on in GitHub Actions and Azure pipelines. Edit: apparently Azure pipelines uses Mac pros. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines…

Apple is anti-VM - there is a soft limit on how many VMs one can run on their M1/M2 Macs. The number is 2.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#186

Post by bryanrasmussen »

okamiueru wrote: post #179

What I want to do is not have to have a unified build system for multiple platforms and ABIs without any problem, but for some reason, to target anything apple, I have to use a physical apple machine. It's absolutely abusing market position, because it ends up being that in my profession, you end up purchasing mac computers for the whole office, because then you can target all platforms without any fuss. Not because…

I think when they started this requirement they were not in the market leader position, so it seemed less abusive to people at the time.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#187

Post by _kbh_ »

smoldesu wrote: post #146
brookst wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve made a fair point and that’s a reasonable opinion, but do you think it should be outright illegal for console makers to use a business model of consoles at cost, profits made on a share of game sales? Because that was Epic’s end game.

They can make them at-cost and then charge whatever they want on their store. They just also have to allow me to choose different stores, or install another OS on my console if the OEM goes against my wishes. If you don't think I deserve that right as the lawful proprietor of said hardware, then we may be at an impasse. It seems like perfectly fair game to me.

> They just also have to allow me to choose different stores, or install another OS on my console if the OEM goes against my wishes

Whose job would it be to maintain all of the compatibility layers for the custom hardware that consoles generally contain?.

Who pays for all the work to allow you to do whatever you want on your device?.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#188

Post by amelius »

borispavlovic wrote: post #180
okamiueru wrote: post #179

What I want to do is not have to have a unified build system for multiple platforms and ABIs without any problem, but for some reason, to target anything apple, I have to use a physical apple machine. It's absolutely abusing market position, because it ends up being that in my profession, you end up purchasing mac computers for the whole office, because then you can target all platforms without any fuss. Not because…

It's on the expensive side, I know, but have you considered using bitrise.io?

Not an option for many from a privacy/security standpoint.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#189

Post by amelius »

okamiueru wrote: post #179

What I want to do is not have to have a unified build system for multiple platforms and ABIs without any problem, but for some reason, to target anything apple, I have to use a physical apple machine. It's absolutely abusing market position, because it ends up being that in my profession, you end up purchasing mac computers for the whole office, because then you can target all platforms without any fuss. Not because…

Yes, and I wonder why do we have Wine to run Windows stuff on Linux, but we have no equivalent to run OSX programs on Linux ...

Is nobody interested in implementing the OSX APIs on Linux?

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#190

Post by fuu_dev »

amelius wrote: post #189
okamiueru wrote: post #179

What I want to do is not have to have a unified build system for multiple platforms and ABIs without any problem, but for some reason, to target anything apple, I have to use a physical apple machine. It's absolutely abusing market position, because it ends up being that in my profession, you end up purchasing mac computers for the whole office, because then you can target all platforms without any fuss. Not because…

Yes, and I wonder why do we have Wine to run Windows stuff on Linux, but we have no equivalent to run OSX programs on Linux ... Is nobody interested in implementing the OSX APIs on Linux?

There is a project like this: https://github.com/darlinghq/darling
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