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Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

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Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#41

Now I'd like to be able to legally run MacOS on a virtual machine or on AWS or Azure or Google Cloud or something. I know you can rent a bare metal Apple Mini or something, but Apple's terms of service make this all basically illegal to use like any other VM. That means if I want to develop an app for iOS (beyond just what you can do in Swift Playgrounds), I can't just boot up a VM or AWS instance, I have to either b…

Not illegal, but a breach of contract.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#42
post #36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been working out fine for the Steam Deck. Sure, you can install Windows and/or any other storefront, but you won't have the console-like experience that Valve's own software provides. It's trivially easy to install pirated games on the Deck, without any cracking or modification of the system. You never have to make a single Steam purchase after buying the Deck, but Valve's betting that you will. And they're righ…

I mean... working fine, in that the only people who buy them are pretty techy. It's not so easy to get Win 10 working right, it requires a fair bit of effort, and the experience sucks. I'm not so sure Steam would be super happy if Epic started distributing a new frontend and store through their marketplace. I'm quite sure they wouldn't let them.

I would be extremely surprised if Valve attempted to block Epic from doing that.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#43
post #41

Now I'd like to be able to legally run MacOS on a virtual machine or on AWS or Azure or Google Cloud or something. I know you can rent a bare metal Apple Mini or something, but Apple's terms of service make this all basically illegal to use like any other VM. That means if I want to develop an app for iOS (beyond just what you can do in Swift Playgrounds), I can't just boot up a VM or AWS instance, I have to either b…

Not illegal, but a breach of contract.

Breach of contract is illegal, even though its not (in and of itself) criminal.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#44
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... working fine, in that the only people who buy them are pretty techy. It's not so easy to get Win 10 working right, it requires a fair bit of effort, and the experience sucks. I'm not so sure Steam would be super happy if Epic started distributing a new frontend and store through their marketplace. I'm quite sure they wouldn't let them.

I would be extremely surprised if Valve attempted to block Epic from doing that.

Really? They specifically don't allow distribution of anything but games, which would preclude a storefront, presumably.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#45
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been working out fine for the Steam Deck. Sure, you can install Windows and/or any other storefront, but you won't have the console-like experience that Valve's own software provides. It's trivially easy to install pirated games on the Deck, without any cracking or modification of the system. You never have to make a single Steam purchase after buying the Deck, but Valve's betting that you will. And they're righ…

The steam deck is a way different value proposition compared to consoles though, console manufacturers take a loss for initial consoles sold until they can bring costs. Whereas the steam deck has likely been sold as a profit from day one.

The Steam Deck probably doesn't have much wider margins than a Switch or a Playstation. It might be sold at a profit, but the base $400 model is a pretty ridiculous deal already. Gabe Newell was upfront about the pricing process being painful for the hardware. He he also said that piracy is a services problem though, and the Steam Deck proves that in spades - if the default experience is superior, why bother with the competitors? You don't need to lock out the user to make that point.

If anything, the iPhone is the odd one out for having hardware margins that don't suck.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#46
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run Chrome, which has a virtual machine in it. Maybe not the same kind of virtual machine that you're talking about, but this is the kind of virtual machine that Apple has banned: any kind of code that isn't statically compiled, that isn't immediately readable. This is why Chrome (actual, not the thin cosmetic shell over Safari WebView available now) can't run on iOS: Chrome has to download & run JS code, and…

Can you tone it down a bit with the “has a virtual machine in it” part. The word you are looking for is “sandbox” virtualization.

Actually trying to distribute a web browser with its own JS engine that does _not_ sandbox JS code is also disallowed on iOS.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#47
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not illegal, but a breach of contract.

Breach of contract is illegal, even though its not (in and of itself) criminal.

I can't find anything online to support that.

Everything I find says that to be illegal, something must be against the law, and that a contract is not law, so the word "illegal" doesn't apply to breach of contract because it's private.

There is a difference between illegality and criminality however -- e.g. breaking the speed limit is illegal but it doesn't reach criminal, as one source uses as an example.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#48
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but now can I run a virtual machine on an android device?

Currently, you're limited to QEMU with software emulation or a Linux proot/chroot. KVM support isn't in a stable version of Android yet but it's coming soon. With an unlocked bootloader and potentially a few kernel tweaks you probably could (as well as Windows and any other compatible OS). I don't think the experience will be very usable, though. iPhones contain dedicated hardware that Android devices don't have (and…

Cool that KVM seems to be in the cards in the future. I didn't get the impression that GP meant emulating iOS itself on Android though.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breach of contract is illegal, even though its not (in and of itself) criminal.

I can't find anything online to support that. Everything I find says that to be illegal, something must be against the law, and that a contract is not law, so the word "illegal" doesn't apply to breach of contract because it's private. There is a difference between illegality and criminality however -- e.g. breaking the speed limit is illegal but it doesn't reach criminal, as one source uses as an example.

Actually, speeding is criminal in many states.

Re: Apple just lost its lawsuit trying to ban iOS virtual machines

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breach of contract is illegal, even though its not (in and of itself) criminal.

I can't find anything online to support that. Everything I find says that to be illegal, something must be against the law, and that a contract is not law, so the word "illegal" doesn't apply to breach of contract because it's private. There is a difference between illegality and criminality however -- e.g. breaking the speed limit is illegal but it doesn't reach criminal, as one source uses as an example.

> Everything I find says that to be illegal, something must be against the law.

A breach of contract is against, and has remedies provided under, the law of contracts..

> A contract is not law

No, but the law of contracts is law.

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