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Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

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Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#91

Post by _8j50 »

rayiner wrote: post #64
_8j50 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the popular support isn't there but they'd in reality only need the support of the texas national guard. A traitor president also helps. And you also have a ton of people who go "who cares, let them leave" like they're breaking up with a romantic partner lol, absolutley no sense of patriotism. I mean, I don't care if it is texas, missisipi or claifornia, I am an american and all of it is mine. Whether it is a…

[flagged]

I don't care about culture and people. I'm an american, all of the land is mine as it is for any american. You don't need to agree on everything and I couldn't care less about that, even if there is a civil war, so long as the war is about who controls all of the US I may not care as much. The land and it's resources are mine and ours to share, no one gets to take that away for themselves because they own property around nearby.

I mean, a ton if land even in texas doesn't even belong to texas. And texas itself is a state in the union, it does not have sole ownership of the land it just happens to be government of the people who live on that land. All of the US is american land first and last.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#92

Post by qwytw »

api wrote: post #78
qwytw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't know and we'll never know. All you can do is tell just-so stories You can compare the permanent boom and bust cycle the global economy was in prior to the Great Depression to the relatively stable inflationary environment of the last several decades. Just look at: https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1800?amount=1#:~:t... . Specie based money (with not meaningful monetary policy) is not stable, in fac…

Here's the problem: https://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations We can't run an experiment to determine causation. A lot of things happened since WWII. The whole way our government works shifted more toward centralization as a result of the war. Better information and communication technology could have allowed markets to operate more efficiently. Loads of European and Asian productivity was smashed in the war, dist…

> We can't run an experiment to determine causation.

Just like with most/almost all complex systems. I don't see this as a good reason to handwave all the arguments or reasoning somebody happens to disagree with.

There are two issues (and there is plenty of empirical evidence for them, since we've actually observed this):

- Ensuring price/currency stability in a globalized market is almost impossible without very strict capital controls. You get long-term price stability at a cost of very high short term volatility that's a core feature of the gold standard in basically any non stagnant economy. High short term volatility leads to financial instability due to higher uncertainty etc. which again puts the economy in a permanent boom and bust cycle.

- The ability of central banks to respond to economic crises is severely limited. Can't really use monetary policy to to stabilize the economy, stimulate growth or decrease unemployment are severely limited. Between the 1830s and 1930s there were three events which were called the 'Great depression' (well that is unless the next one when the previous one was renamed to something like the 'long' depression for instance...). How many 'economic depression' were there in the last 90 years?

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#93

Post by skissane »

jfengel wrote: post #82
s1artibartfast wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between maintaining the right to do something and wanting to do something or preparing to do something. I maintain that I have the right to leave my employer and wife. I don't have plans or want to do either at the current moment

I suppose it depends on what "pass a referendum consistent thereto" means. I have no idea. My suspicion is that it's talking out of both sides of their mouth. It means they can go to any kooks and say "We want to secede", while saying to everybody else "oh, it's just a referendum to re-assert what we already claim to be true, just for funsies".

> I suppose it depends on what "pass a referendum consistent thereto" means. I have no idea.

It means enacting legislation for a secession referendum, and holding the referendum. It doesn’t mean secession is going to win the referendum.

If Texas held a secession referendum tomorrow, I doubt “Yes” would get anywhere near a majority-and I’m sure they know that. It would be an exercise in moving the Overton window, not in actually seceding. Which I think is their whole point-actual secession would be enormously risky for unclear benefit, making it a topic of live political debate could have great reward for some.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#94

Post by jfengel »

skissane wrote: post #93
jfengel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends on what "pass a referendum consistent thereto" means. I have no idea. My suspicion is that it's talking out of both sides of their mouth. It means they can go to any kooks and say "We want to secede", while saying to everybody else "oh, it's just a referendum to re-assert what we already claim to be true, just for funsies".

> I suppose it depends on what "pass a referendum consistent thereto" means. I have no idea. It means enacting legislation for a secession referendum, and holding the referendum. It doesn’t mean secession is going to win the referendum. If Texas held a secession referendum tomorrow, I doubt “Yes” would get anywhere near a majority-and I’m sure they know that. It would be an exercise in moving the Overton window, not…

That does seem consistent with my suggestion that it was talking out of both sides of their mouth. I'm quite certain they're not saying out loud that they expect it to fail. And that they are making promises in some quarters that they will endeavor to see it pass.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#95

Post by red-iron-pine »

sneak wrote: post #58
dotcoma wrote: post #29

Is Texas getting ready to secede from the union, or what ?

Getting ready? Many in Texas never dropped the idea. They even have their own separate power grid, just in case.

And how well is that going for them? It still sucks, and may crap out yet again during peak season this year

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#96

Post by skissane »

jfengel wrote: post #94
skissane wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose it depends on what "pass a referendum consistent thereto" means. I have no idea. It means enacting legislation for a secession referendum, and holding the referendum. It doesn’t mean secession is going to win the referendum. If Texas held a secession referendum tomorrow, I doubt “Yes” would get anywhere near a majority-and I’m sure they know that. It would be an exercise in moving the Overton window, not…

That does seem consistent with my suggestion that it was talking out of both sides of their mouth. I'm quite certain they're not saying out loud that they expect it to fail. And that they are making promises in some quarters that they will endeavor to see it pass.

Secessionist threats can be a useful strategy to get what you want. Spain and the UK are examples of countries whose increased decentralisation (greater power for regional governments) is largely an attempt to subdue secessionist demands, if those secessionist demands had never existed that decentralisation may well never have happened-certainly not to the same degree. Similarly, the Canadian political establishment invested immense resources in constitutional reforms to try to satisfy Quebec nationalists (the Meech Lake Accord and Charlottetown Accord), although those reforms failed - without the threat of Quebec secession they likely never would have put so much time into it.

Whether that strategy works as well in the very different political context of the US remains to be seen, but it isn’t impossible that it might

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#97

Post by Geee »

jfengel wrote: post #84
zpeti wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand the entire first principles these anti deflationists stand on. Like every single electronics product in the last 50 years has been deflating in price (either literally or increasing in core value). Does that stop people buying them? No! But perhaps someone here who’s anti deflationist could explain to me why I’m wrong.

Deflation mostly matters with currency. Deflation of products is a good thing. The problem with deflating currency is that it encourages you to sit on it. Economists don't want you sitting on a hoard like a dragon. In the extreme case, GDP goes to zero today because everybody is expecting prices to be cheaper tomorrow. Then all the workers get fired because there's nothing to produce. Now they have no money, and buy…

That's the common misconception.

In reality, people spend their money when they want or need something.

Today it's possible to hoard wealth in real estate/gold/stocks. The value of the pile is guaranteed to go up because of guaranteed inflation. Yet for some reason the economy doesn't grind to halt. By your explanation, everyone would just sit on that pile like a dragon and never buy anything.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#98

Post by jfengel »

Geee wrote: post #97
jfengel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflation mostly matters with currency. Deflation of products is a good thing. The problem with deflating currency is that it encourages you to sit on it. Economists don't want you sitting on a hoard like a dragon. In the extreme case, GDP goes to zero today because everybody is expecting prices to be cheaper tomorrow. Then all the workers get fired because there's nothing to produce. Now they have no money, and buy…

That's the common misconception. In reality, people spend their money when they want or need something. Today it's possible to hoard wealth in real estate/gold/stocks. The value of the pile is guaranteed to go up because of guaranteed inflation. Yet for some reason the economy doesn't grind to halt. By your explanation, everyone would just sit on that pile like a dragon and never buy anything.

Economists are perfectly happy with you buying stocks or real estate. That puts the money back in circulation, and funding something people use. They just don't want you sitting on cash.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#99

Post by everybodyknows »

The state of Texas has run a "depository" for precious metals since 2018. In practice, it operates as a sort of specialized safe deposit vault, with holdings of each account kept segregated:

https://www.texasbulliondepository.gov/faqs

Fees are 0.5% of value per year:

https://www.texasbulliondepository.gov/pricing

Apparently there is no per-transaction charge, unlike the proposed digital instrument.

Re: Texas moves to create gold-backed digital currency

#100

Post by Geee »

jfengel wrote: post #98
Geee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the common misconception. In reality, people spend their money when they want or need something. Today it's possible to hoard wealth in real estate/gold/stocks. The value of the pile is guaranteed to go up because of guaranteed inflation. Yet for some reason the economy doesn't grind to halt. By your explanation, everyone would just sit on that pile like a dragon and never buy anything.

Economists are perfectly happy with you buying stocks or real estate. That puts the money back in circulation, and funding something people use. They just don't want you sitting on cash.

The argument was that people wouldn't be consuming if their wealth keeps growing and everything gets cheaper all the time, and the economy would grind to a halt. It's the same thing with investments, and it isn't true. People can buy gold right now and sit on it until they die (in a few days), but they don't.

People spend whenever they need or want something, which is the fundamental force that keeps the economy running, regardless of what type of money or wealth they possess.

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