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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

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Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#271

Post by chimeracoder »

surrealize wrote: post #188
jakobe wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you are treating Mac OS as if it was a Linux distro. If you want the Linux experience, with package managers and command line utilities and X11, then Mac OS is not a good choice. Package managers with automatic dependency resolution are a typical feature of a Linux installation. But they go against the core principles of Mac OS X. Software on Mac OS X is distributed as self-contained packages, tha…

Part of the rationale for package management with dependencies in linux is so that libraries are shared (only loaded into memory once) between different executables. If OS X is giving up some of that sharing in exchange for simpler installation, I wonder how much that has to do with the memory usage complaints in the comments here.

> If OS X is giving up some of that sharing in exchange for simpler installation,

I don't really see how OS X has 'simpler' installation than any well-structured Linux distro. What could be simpler than typing pacman -S or apt-get install , using a single, built-in package manager that automatically fetches, builds, (possibly) compiles, and installs all dependencies at the same time?

Even if you're terrified of the command line, it's not like you can't build a GUI that makes that process look more appealing.

And please don't try and tell me that brew or macports are replacements - they're not. They're ersatz substitutes that do a passable job of installing some (but not all) development packages and basic applications. They don't manage system libraries, and they don't manage many applications that have to be installed from the App Store or from .dmg files. That's not one system - that's three or four, and they don't all play nice with each other.

In the time it took me to write this comment, I was able to upgrade all of my installed applications, system libraries, python modules, and absolutely everything else - all in one go.

Command-line or not, I can't see how one can argue OS X has 'simple' installation on any dimension, compared to (most) Linux distros.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#272

Post by kristopolous »

i386 wrote: post #14
bwarp wrote: post #11

I've had a few Apple machines over the years (mainly as test machines and toys). I've had two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, an iMac and a couple of Mac Minis. I have nothing now other than a cheap second hand desktop PC (and some cash in pocket!): I agree with the build quality - they are good quality as in good materials and good fit. However, with my EE cap on, the designs themselves are bad and are quite dangerous. W…

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

Macbooks catching fire is kind of what they are good at, just do a little google-fu:

The Powerbook 5300 was recalled because some batteries caught fire on the assembly line. (1995)

The batteries, manufactured by LG Chem Ltd. of South Korea, could overheat and pose a fire hazard, according to the CPSC. The recall affects laptops sold since January, which contain batteries produced last December. Approximately 28,000 batteries are affected by the recall. (2004)

Apple Computer Inc. on Thursday recalled 1.8 million Sony-built notebook batteries that could overheat and catch fire. (2006)

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#273

Post by dredmorbius »

feralchimp wrote: post #161

If I were in the OP's position, I would just run my preferred Linux dev environment inside a VM.

Been there, done that. Reference T-shirt.

Eventually the RAM penalty kills you. Especially if you prefer the Linux environment to the Mac one (and hence are using it more heavily), or the need to run multiple VMs.

The real lesson: if your preferred environment is XYZ, then run environment XYZ. Not ABC. Not PRQ. Not KLM.

And all the ABC/PRQ/KLM fanboi/boosters/shills/fanatics on the planet won't change your preferences (or specific needs, or your twisted path through the world of computing evolution) one whit.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#275

Post by jerf »

bermanoid wrote: post #200
Terretta wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do happen to have an 8 GB machine, and almost never reboot (only reboot for OS updates). I run half a menu-bar full of resident helper apps, like Dropbox (a big one), Fantastical, ScanSnap, Xmarks (another big one), Transmit (another big one), Evernote, and more. I also keep Apple Mail running, mapped to a half dozen Gmail IMAP accounts. I have "geek tool" updating my desktop with iCal appointments and various ps o…

I do happen to have an 8 GB machine, and almost never reboot (only reboot for OS updates). Here's what I don't understand - why would anyone in their right mind purchase a $2000 laptop and then not spend the 20 minutes and 100 bucks to max out the memory on the thing? It's the easiest thing in the world to do, and basically means you never have to worry about memory usage again.

Well, it's only a $1000 laptop, but...

    jerf@jerfhom ~/tv $ uptime
     01:01:32 up 2 days, 23:45,  4 users, ...              
    jerf@jerfhom ~/tv $ free
                 total       used       free ...
    Mem:       3904192    3682400     221792 ...      
    -/+ buffers/cache:     740212    3163980
    Swap:      6297444      20584    6276860
Recall that what "matters" is really that second line, which translates to 740MB being really "used" and 3.1GB being just "stuff I happened to read from disk at one point", which as it happens includes rather a lot of media files. Loading another 4GB of media into RAM isn't going to help my system performance any.

This is with a respectable Linux dev loadout, but I'm not running my VMs, but that still tends not to strain my system any. $100 on RAM would just be a wasted $100.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#276

Post by akeck »

To me, the three major operating platforms are tools that all have strengths and weaknesses. In the same way that I wouldn't use my nice chisels to loosen a laptop screw, I wouldn't use a MacBook for writing code for our Linux infrastructure. I am more efficient doing that work on Linux itself.

At the same time, I shoot photos and video, and do some writing to take a break from IT. I've tried doing that work using the included tools on all three platforms. I find the Mac platform the most efficient and trouble-free for that work. Linux is second, but is frustrating at times - especially regarding video.

At work, even though we have a heterogenous server environment, we communicate using Office and SharePoint. Also the wireless network seems to work best with Windows. Thus, at work I use Windows 7 with PuTTY, Gnu Screen, and several Linux VMs, and at home I use a MacBook with a Linux VM. These two setups let me use the three PC platforms for the workflows for which they seem best suited.

I think it's missing the point to debate which is the one true platform. We all have things we want to do, things we want to create. In my experience, the question is not "which platform is better in general?", it's "on which platform can I most easily get my work done?". If my current platform no longer works well, I try the others. In the end, I'm paid more for getting more work done in less time, so the efficiency of a platform for that work decides the question.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#277

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

ajross wrote: post #193
semanticist wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple don't provide these package management tools, volunteering third-parties do. Apple are never going to provide Linux-style package management tools because the market for them is minuscule compared to Apple's real market: normal people. For normal people, there's the App Store.

Developers aren't "normal people" then? If that's seriously the attitude Apple takes towards its developer community ("no, we won't give you the software you need, get it from the crappy community projects") then why do you put up with it? It seems like the OP's point is pretty valid to me. I use an OS that gives me what I need to do my job.

Because even developers do "normal people" things. There are a lot of trade offs, but in my experience Apple provides the best middle-of-the-road machines.

Linux and Windows feel like they exist on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#278

Post by hendrix »

thenduks wrote: post #127
mrich wrote: post #89

Regarding hardware quality: "...why there's no PC manufacturers that would have the same overall quality of the hardware." In my experience, business ThinkPads beat MacBooks by a mile for working (e.g. programming). I am surprised to see so many coders use MacBooks. Thinkpads have better ergonomics, are more robust and better performance/configurable hardware (e.g. RAM).

Honestly, contrary to this article, I think you'd find that most developers using Macs use them more for the OS than for the hardware. If I could build a seriously beefy desktop machine and run OSX properly on it, I would. For laptops the nice hardware (as others have said, especially the trackpad, but there are plenty of other reasons) is a definite plus, but OSX is just great. Wanting some specific hardware for a d…

You can, it's called a Hackintosh.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#279

Post by jrminter »

kahawe wrote: post #143

Just because homebrew wasn't your thing doesn't make macs or OSX "stupid". And I used to do Java development in eclipse/netbeans with db, ide and appserv all running on one machine that had 2GB and I never had any issues... memory hogs hello. I have and am developing on nix, OS X and windos and I can still simply not understand what this guy is all about - basically it comes down to: for his style of work, some nix d…

Yes, OSX comes with Python and Perl. Both are somewhat limited. There have been issues with 64bit with Snow Leopard's Python and adding Perl modules to the default perl can break things. Dealing with multiple installations of each can have problems. I think modern Linux distributions handle this better.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#280

Post by kaushiks »

I switched for a slightly different reason. In my case, some of the bleeding edge branches of projects I cared about weren't even building on OSX. Also, system default versions of software like GDB aren't quite as recent as their Linux counterparts - which forced me to have to deal with MacPorts and the like.
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