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Let's End Adolescence

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Re: Let's End Adolescence

#91

Post by bokonist »

jacobolus wrote: post #59
bokonist wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't invented out of the blue, but it was an evolved creation of politics. In classic democratic fashion, a lot of factions were pushing their own agenda that ended up making the country as a whole worse off. The education establishment has continually upped the drop out age. Labor unions ( in alliance with wealthy parents) pushed for stricter child labor laws to reduce competition for jobs. Aristocratic progres…

> Labor unions ( in alliance with wealthy parents ) pushed for stricter child labor laws to reduce competition for jobs. Aristocratic progressives wanted an institution to indoctrinate immigrants in the American way of live [ sic ]. The rise of credentialing laws made college a necessity for earning a decent income. Please provide citations of serious studies of these trends you talk about; this analysis seems facile…

I found one of books: "Left Back: A Century of Battles Over School Reform". You can read a full review here: http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/000948.html

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#92

Post by jimbokun »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #36
Dilpil wrote: post #11

The real purpose of high school is keeping the roving hordes of teenagers off the street. Teenagers have no judgement (I certainly didn't), and we would like to have some method of keeping them occupied. Unfortunately, where before that method involved actual learning, nowadays schools are basically just low security prisons. Furthermore, Newt is completely off when he claims that all adolescents want more responsibi…

> A small fraction of adolescents want more responsibility It's a question of the meaning of "want." I think a small fraction of adolescents can articulate that they "want" meaningful responsibility and structure, or make any efforts to get it.

I've always found "want" to be an interesting word in English.

You can really want to be the kind of person who gets up and goes to the gym regularly. And you can also simultaneously want to sit motionless on your sofa and passively watch dumb TV programs, even though those things are totally incompatible.

I suspect it may be similar with figuring out whether teenagers really "want" to be mature, responsible, and productive individuals.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#93

Post by jimbokun »

tdavis wrote: post #87
dpatru wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But what's the alternative here? 'Happy 13th birthday, son, now go get a job!'?" What's wrong with making 13 year-olds support themselves? Why do parents owe their children support? Why should a single mom have to bust her butt to support her 13 year-old son who is bigger and stronger than she is so that he can have plenty of time to hang out with his friends, play video games, do sports, take drugs, etc.? In my min…

Why should a single mom have to bust her butt to support her 13 year-old son... Because she birthed him. Look, if a 13 year old kid wants to get a job, more power to them. However, if they don't, it's the parents' responsibility to provide for that child until they're an adult mainly because, at least in this society, kids aren't raised to be factory workers by 13. You're looking at it from a perhaps pragmatic point…

"Once you do that it becomes your responsibility to care for and raise that person"

Until when?

I'm not sure if I disagree with you or not, but the post you are responding to isn't saying parents have no responsibilities to their children, only that a 13 year old could take on a whole lot more responsibility than is typical in our society.

So, maybe "get a job and take care of yourself" is too harsh, but is there some middle position?

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#95

Post by willchang »

swombat wrote: post #66

I discarded this guy's argument once I read this paragraph: And experiments such as the one my daughter, Jackie Cushman, is running in Atlanta—where poor children are paid the equivalent of working in a fast-food restaurant to study and do their homework—are examples of a more dynamic future. How is being paid to study and do homework an example of early adulthood? One huge difference between adults and non-adults is…

Educated people make for a better society. If that weren't the case, there'd be no point in giving out scholarships either.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#96

Post by nazgulnarsil »

nir wrote: post #6

The 3 stage process of childhood - adolescence - adulthood is already irrelevant in many affluent Western countries, but what was removed isn't adolescence but adulthood. Many 40 year olds manage their lives as teenagers (look at the low birth rate in western Europe, or high divorce rate in the US) and vice versa - teenagers build $15b (if you believe it ;)) companies.

It goes a lot deeper than a few mismanaged lives. The disregard for personal responsibility and the subsequent politics that result will get much worse as generation x then y come of age.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#97

Post by nazgulnarsil »

unalone wrote: post #39
nir wrote: post #6

The 3 stage process of childhood - adolescence - adulthood is already irrelevant in many affluent Western countries, but what was removed isn't adolescence but adulthood. Many 40 year olds manage their lives as teenagers (look at the low birth rate in western Europe, or high divorce rate in the US) and vice versa - teenagers build $15b (if you believe it ;)) companies.

I don't think it's fair to assume specific phases of life whatsoever: people don't automatically grow up. Some people seem to skip the adolescence phase and go right to adulthood, for better or for worse. However, it IS fair to say that society reacts to people of certain ages as if the sheer fact of getting older meant instant change in mood and personality. And that's harmful.

maturity has little to do with age and everything to do with responsibility. I remember of hearing about a couple who adopted an orphan from Russia. the kid made people uncomfortable because he acted like an adult. Why? he was the oldest kid at his orphanage and had been looking out for younger kids for years.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#98

Post by Dilpil »

mynameishere wrote: post #24
Dilpil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason republicans so frequently tout this line is because they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of education. Newt and company believe that education is essentially career training, and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals. Industry does not want to simply hire people who know exactly how to…

and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology I'm pretty sure that Gingrich who is a professor, and every other republican who has ever considered the question in any way, recognizes the use and purpose of calculus and biology. But don't let reason get in the way of your mindless contempt. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals No, it isn't, unless…

If software engineering jobs want a skill set, then why are technical schools regarded as useless while highly theoretical schools are regarded as top tier?

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#99

Post by etal »

Tichy wrote: post #72
unalone wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Because school is ABSOLUTELY a good way to promote individuality and unique thinking. Because most teachers DON'T push for students to adapt to a single way of thinking because it makes them easy to manage. Because students DON'T judge students for individuality, creating a lopsided social ladder that lasts easily into college.

But they are not good enough, they did not succeed in quelling adolescent behavior.

Adolescent behavior is a pretty trivial threat to the status quo. Most of the lashing out is justified by their acceptance of the idea that they'll have to be working stiffs later.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#100

Post by dc2k08 »

they take away a quarter of my life (av age of death 75) holding me back and forcing me to learn for tests things that i dont want to know. i like volcanoes. i know how they work. i dont need to be tested on their intricities.

finally i get a chance at a college education and choose something that i hope better gels. if it doesnt its back to step one. if i succeed, im most likely stuck in a 9-6'er at a job that will eventually bore me, turning the cogs for the economy in the dream i am supposed to have.

the more money i make, the more things cost. meanwhile the politicians take summers off and long breaks, pay themselves handsomely and imagine that this is fair. they wonder why i am not happily churning out kids for them to support their economy and further wedge myself in their dream. i'll keep pissing about thanks.

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