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Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

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Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#91

Post by tamarind8 »

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #88

tamarind8, if it's any comfort for you I think a similar situation is quite common in the industry. It's just that not may developers talk about it when it happens, rather they are sort of shamed into thinking that somehow they are inadequate. The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes. What tools you use is irrelevant. If indeed you were talking too long to deliver, reasonable…

Thank you my friend, those are wise words. And I have quietly moved on from such behavior in the past, only to find it again years later. I feel I have to make a statement this time around. Treating people this way is unacceptable, and illegal. I will have to prove the illegal part, but I'm ready to pay the price.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#92

Post by tamarind8 »

blowski wrote: post #86
tamarind8 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also not because they changed their mind about the React rewrite. It's far more likely they thought you were going to be a bad culture fit. So, that is a valid argument. But looking at my termination letter, it says "did not met the performance expectations and standards". This is after I know, that the only ticket they gave me, which I insisted on being given, did not only meet the requirements, but exceeded…

I absolutely could be wrong. Even if I spent 2 hours listening to both sides, I could still be wrong. This is my best guess, based on my own experience of being a manager. My guess is that you gave them what you thought was honest and helpful feedback, but the way you delivered it made you come across as arrogant and abrasive. I say that because I get the same feeling talking to you on here. Imagine a story that runs…

> This is my best guess, based on my own experience of being a manager.

So, as a manager. How would you feel if someone interviewed you, and hired you based on your years of experience as a manager, then suddenly started acting like you have no experience at all? How would you handle that?

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#93

Post by not_your_vase »

not_your_vase wrote: post #6

If you are actually productive with your method, then I would advice you to be happy that you dodged a bullet, and it only cost you 3 weeks. Go for another company, and don't chase this one. If, however, they have a point, try to learn some productivity tools to be more efficient before going for the job. In any case, don't think too much about this company, it will just distract you.

Just one more, for myself: there is a reason it is called Firefox and not Hirefox

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#94

Post by tamarind8 »

simonw wrote: post #84
tamarind8 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, you wouldn't be the first opinionated junior developer that gets a reality check this way. hahajahha!!! This guy just called me a junior dev. I guess that is possible. To work 17 years in the same profession, being payed, mostly as a temp contractor, having to prove your chops over and over again every year or so, but still somehow never learning anything. Thanks bro. From today on, I'll consider myself a j…

> Firefox, or even Chrome for that matter, is not a web dev tool. It is a browser. That's an odd thing to say. Firefox, Chrome and Safari are absolutely web dev tools - they're the most powerful such tools I've ever used.

I think you need to consider the difference between a browser, and the web dev tools that come with a browser. Let me put it differently, lets assume chrome has 10 billion users. Out of all those, how many do you think actually even know the dev tools exist? 10 billion? 1 billion? 100 million? No. More like 1 million.

Please take some time to consider what I'm saying to you.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#95

Post by blowski »

tamarind8 wrote: post #92
blowski wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely could be wrong. Even if I spent 2 hours listening to both sides, I could still be wrong. This is my best guess, based on my own experience of being a manager. My guess is that you gave them what you thought was honest and helpful feedback, but the way you delivered it made you come across as arrogant and abrasive. I say that because I get the same feeling talking to you on here. Imagine a story that runs…

> This is my best guess, based on my own experience of being a manager. So, as a manager. How would you feel if someone interviewed you, and hired you based on your years of experience as a manager, then suddenly started acting like you have no experience at all? How would you handle that?

How would I feel? I’d be annoyed! Undermined. Why would they hire me and then belittle me with tasks someone with half my experience could do?

How would I handle it? There are two answers to that.

The first is “I’d quit and go and get a new job”. I’d assume they were idiots who didn’t know how to run a software company. I’ve done this in the past.

The second is “I’d figure out why they feel like that and do something about it”. Seniority is set to zero when you join a new company, and you build it by working well over time. If you’re smashing out junior tasks every day for two weeks, discuss it in retro and 1:1. This is where personal growth comes from and shows true seniority.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#96

Post by TylerE »

tamarind8 wrote: post #76
TylerE wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Console.log and a prayer isn’t exactly the kind of thing I’d like to hear from a dev I’d just hired, tbh.

And is that a front end dev? So please tell me exactly, HOW you want your senior front end devs to solve the problems you assign to them. Lets forget about the WHEN and WHAT for now. Just let us know the HOW. Specifically, I mean the IDES or editors you expect them to use, the browsers you want them to test in, the static analysis tools you expect them to use, to unit testing libraries you want them to use, the e2e t…

Yeah, you weren't fired for using Firefox. You were fired for acting dickish about it.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#97

Post by CoastalCoder »

CalRobert wrote: post #47
CoastalCoder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some good reasons to (as a matter of policy) not lie. IMHO it's better to cast around for the best possible honest framing of the issue.

I've been much better at getting paid well since I started... creatively reframing my comp.

I hear you. I wasn't suggesting that lying never pays off in some way.

And I concede that a policy of honesty might only make sense in some world views / ethical positions.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#98

Post by simonw »

tamarind8 wrote: post #94
simonw wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox, or even Chrome for that matter, is not a web dev tool. It is a browser. That's an odd thing to say. Firefox, Chrome and Safari are absolutely web dev tools - they're the most powerful such tools I've ever used.

I think you need to consider the difference between a browser, and the web dev tools that come with a browser. Let me put it differently, lets assume chrome has 10 billion users. Out of all those, how many do you think actually even know the dev tools exist? 10 billion? 1 billion? 100 million? No. More like 1 million. Please take some time to consider what I'm saying to you.

I see the developer toolbars as part of the browser as a whole, whether or not most users are aware of them.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#99

Post by simonw »

dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #88

tamarind8, if it's any comfort for you I think a similar situation is quite common in the industry. It's just that not may developers talk about it when it happens, rather they are sort of shamed into thinking that somehow they are inadequate. The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes. What tools you use is irrelevant. If indeed you were talking too long to deliver, reasonable…

"The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes"

That may be true at junior levels, but as you become more senior your output is judged on a whole bunch of other things:

- Do you elevate the rest of your team? Through mentoring, teaching, documentation etc.

- Do you participate productively in higher level strategic planning? Helping the company decide what to build next for example - senior engineers should participate in planning, in order to help the company understand how features can best be built, when to pay down technical debt etc.

- Do other people look forward to working with you, or do they avoid it? This can have a major impact on your ability to deliver value.

Plenty more things like that.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#100

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

simonw wrote: post #99
dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #88

tamarind8, if it's any comfort for you I think a similar situation is quite common in the industry. It's just that not may developers talk about it when it happens, rather they are sort of shamed into thinking that somehow they are inadequate. The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes. What tools you use is irrelevant. If indeed you were talking too long to deliver, reasonable…

"The _only_ measure of your output is the results you deliver and the time it takes" That may be true at junior levels, but as you become more senior your output is judged on a whole bunch of other things: - Do you elevate the rest of your team? Through mentoring, teaching, documentation etc. - Do you participate productively in higher level strategic planning? Helping the company decide what to build next for exampl…

Did you actually think I did not know all of what you put?
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