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Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

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Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#211

Post by aduitsis »

_glass wrote: post #195
jaharios wrote: post #192

It is always funny to me, seeing someone speaking about the Greek Language as a dead one. Most of these terms are spoken in everyday life in Greece with the same meaning. Old English are way harder to understand for an neo-English speaker than Homer writings, going back 3000 years, are for a neo-Greek speaker. Does this make English a dead language? Also these terms exist in English in one way or the other, taking ti…

one of my pet peeves is to pronounce ancient greek just like modern greek, because that just makes sense. the ancient greek reconstructed pronunciation is just so wrong to do. we have a cultural tradition, continuing with the Roman empire until modernity.

Totally, it's actually harder for Greeks that already speak modern Greek to pronounce Ancient Greek using Erasmian pronounciation :).

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#212

Post by jpasmore »

I wonder how AI (ChatGPT) would think differently if its base language was something other than English. I asked it yesterday about Ancient Egyptian interested also to see how math (Greek/Egyptian) would be represented, but ChatGPT on the language itself:

"To provide an example, let's consider a simple statement in English and explore how Ancient Egyptian could potentially convey additional information or nuances:

English statement: "The sun rises."

Equivalent statement in Ancient Egyptian (not a direct translation): "Ra, the life-giving sun, majestically ascends in the sky, illuminating the world and ushering in a new day."

In this example, the English statement conveys the basic idea that the sun rises. However, the Ancient Egyptian statement incorporates additional cultural and religious associations. It mentions Ra, the ancient Egyptian sun god, attributing the sun's rising to Ra's life-giving aspect. It also includes descriptions such as the sun's majestic ascension, its role in illuminating the world, and its symbolic significance of ushering in a new day.

By incorporating specific cultural references and poetic descriptions, the Ancient Egyptian statement provides a more elaborate and nuanced understanding of the sun's rising, capturing the broader context and symbolic layers associated with this natural phenomenon within the ancient Egyptian worldview.

Please note that the above example is a hypothetical representation and not a direct translation, as the complete nuances and intricacies of the Ancient Egyptian language and culture cannot be fully captured in English. It serves to illustrate the potential for additional information and cultural richness that can be conveyed in Ancient Egyptian beyond the basic content of an English statement."

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#213

Post by denton-scratch »

jaharios wrote: post #192

It is always funny to me, seeing someone speaking about the Greek Language as a dead one. Most of these terms are spoken in everyday life in Greece with the same meaning. Old English are way harder to understand for an neo-English speaker than Homer writings, going back 3000 years, are for a neo-Greek speaker. Does this make English a dead language? Also these terms exist in English in one way or the other, taking ti…

Old English (or Anglo Saxon) is really a different language from modern English, which was hugely changed by the Norman Conquest. Nobody speaks in Anglo Saxon/Old English, so yes: arguably it's a dead language.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#214

Post by denton-scratch »

pjungwir wrote: post #25

These are great suggestions. Adding these words to your own internal vocabulary is totally worth it for self-reflection. Less seriously, a grammatical construction I wish we had in English is the Latin future passive participle, typically ending in -ndus, -nda, -ndum. It means that something needs/ought to be done. For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved." So if someone asks you why your feature isn't in prod…

These are gerundives. I've never heard it reffered to as a future passive participle.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#215

Post by denton-scratch »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #37
pjungwir wrote: post #25

These are great suggestions. Adding these words to your own internal vocabulary is totally worth it for self-reflection. Less seriously, a grammatical construction I wish we had in English is the Latin future passive participle, typically ending in -ndus, -nda, -ndum. It means that something needs/ought to be done. For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved." So if someone asks you why your feature isn't in prod…

> For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved." This is probably a joke but it still is an absurd category to think about. How can anyone be compelled (by what force?) to love someone else?

I think "must" is too strong. It's better as "she who is to be loved".

You can interpret it as implying an obligation or compulsion; but I don't think obligation or compulsion are direct meanings of this verb-form.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#216

Post by SetTheorist »

jpasmore wrote: post #212

I wonder how AI (ChatGPT) would think differently if its base language was something other than English. I asked it yesterday about Ancient Egyptian interested also to see how math (Greek/Egyptian) would be represented, but ChatGPT on the language itself: "To provide an example, let's consider a simple statement in English and explore how Ancient Egyptian could potentially convey additional information or nuances: En…

Your example is patently silly.

Do you really think that Ancient Egyptians didn't have a simple declarative statement that "the sun rises"?

Don't fall into exoticism. Ancient Egyptians were human beings speaking language for the purposes of communication in their day-to-day life, just like we do.

That being said, it definitely could be interesting to see how LLMs would work when trained on different language corpuses and other cultural contexts.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#217

Post by throwaway173738 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #35
adverbly wrote: post #13

I've always liked "akrasia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrasia > Weakness of will to act against one's own better judgement. It's everywhere in modern society, and I'd love to see it called out more.

I think you misquoted. The actual meaning is weakness of will to act according to one's better judgement. From the wiki article ""lacking command" or "weakness", occasionally transliterated as acrasia or Anglicised as acrasy or acracy) is a lack of self-control, or acting against one's better judgment."

I guess it would be characterized by someone noticing water seeping into their house in the dead of night and then going back to sleep instead of trying to stem the flow.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#218

Post by throwaway173738 »

lynx23 wrote: post #142
jdthedisciple wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind? Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.

Which is a totally understandable reaction, since you overstepped a line and pretended you have the right to judge others. In my book, you only have the right to do this with your children, until they are 18 or something. After that, you are just being a dick.

or you’re a doctor.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#219

Post by denton-scratch »

jschveibinz wrote: post #130
nologic01 wrote: post #120

While you are at it, consider reviving the term democracy as well. Ancient Greeks didnt just invent it, they thought deeply about all systems of power and their failure modes. Techniques they used feel still a thing from the future for us modern "democrats". For example, take the term ostracism/ostracize . Today the term has degenerated to mean a certain negative cultural phenomenon. For them it was a democratic proc…

Greek democracy was very different, as you suggest. It was not a system of universal suffrage. Only free male citizens with military training (roughly 30% of the population) were permitted to vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

30% seems a lot! I suppose that doesn't include the slaves.

Also, "Greek democracy" was diverse. Athenian democracy isn't at all the same as Spartan democracy.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#220

Post by egypturnash »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #140
afunk wrote: post #115

From a fun book I have “Philosophy in 40 Ideas” Eudaimonia THIS IS AN ANCIENT GREEK WORD, normally translated as 'fulfilment', particularly emphasised by the philosopher Aristotle. It deserves wider currency because it corrects the shortfalls in one of the most central terms in our contemporary idiom: happiness. The Ancient Greeks resolutely did not believe that the purpose of life was to be happy; they proposed that…

Eudaimonia means “good demons.” Plato used it to refer to the source of Socrates’ inspiration. Etymology of daimon might have it mean the apportioners, dividers or rationers. “With artificial intelligence we are summoning the demon” — Elon Musk Let’s hope for good demons! I’ve been thinking about it lately, and in a world that many believe is filled with intelligence and consciousness at different levels, it might ma…

The Ancient Greek word "daimon" doesn't mean "demon".

Daimon or Daemon (Ancient Greek: δαίμων, "god", "godlike", "power", "fate") originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daimons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy. The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European daimon "provider, divider (of fortunes or destinies)," from the root da- "to divide".

-- Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimon)

The sorts of beings modern English refers to as "demons" are* daimons, but so are "guardian angels" and "saints".

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