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Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

classicalwisdom.substack.com

201–210 of 247 posts

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#201
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind? Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.

Which is a totally understandable reaction, since you overstepped a line and pretended you have the right to judge others. In my book, you only have the right to do this with your children, until they are 18 or something. After that, you are just being a dick.

Hey no offense intended, but this comment seems hypocritical and self-contradictory. Are you claiming?

1. Nobody has a right to judge others. 2. I judge everybody who disagrees with me to be dicks.

Either your own rulebook applies to everyone except you (hypocrisy) or your premise is false (selfcontradction). If you hold that people should not pretend they have the right to think at others, then you should stop doing so yourself. Or is it not the freedom of thinking but the freedom of speech you dislike? Of course because you yourself enjoy your right to judge others (and have done so here) it follows that your premise is false. Thus, everyone has a right to judge others. QED

The opposite claim is less wrong: nobody has a right to be free of judgement from others. To argue otherwise reduces to: I don't like shame, so I deny its validity by blaming others. Being shameless is some kind of behavior disorder predicate, not a virtue! For example here is some random guy in Arkansas who writes about these topics:

"when disturbed characters do perceive that someone is judging them in a negative manner, they easily think that it’s the other person who has the problem."

Source: https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/shameless-and-guiltless-thinki...

The social implications topic came up centuries ago in the Federalist v Antifederalist debate. Where IIRC there was a line of reasoning that the new USA didn't need certain organs of power (law enforcement?) because the 'coercive force of shame' within communities was sufficient to self regulate. I haven't read this stuff for decades but as I recall the counter argument went like: yeah maybe for you guys up north but that only works in your homogeneous post-puritan monoculture... down here in the south we have slave revolts to suppress, er property rights to enforce.

On a lighter note, this whole topic reminds me of:"oh you strenuously object?" from A Few Good Men:

https://youtu.be/bOnRHAyXqYY

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to sibling comments, an author of a very recent translation has also written an article on xenia in the odyssey https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/the-ody... See also their translator's note to their translation

Oops I was mistaken; The article I linked is just a review of the book (and another book). It was Emily Watson's Introduction to her transation of The Odyssey that I was thinking about that touched heavily on xenia. You will be able to read it in the kindle sample https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer-ebook/dp/B06XKNHGN1/ .

Well worth the read -- I saw both the Odyssey and the Trojan war in a different light after reading this essay.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#203
post #115

From a fun book I have “Philosophy in 40 Ideas” Eudaimonia THIS IS AN ANCIENT GREEK WORD, normally translated as 'fulfilment', particularly emphasised by the philosopher Aristotle. It deserves wider currency because it corrects the shortfalls in one of the most central terms in our contemporary idiom: happiness. The Ancient Greeks resolutely did not believe that the purpose of life was to be happy; they proposed that…

I fully agree with you but I do think many people are just speaking generally when they talk about wanting to live a happy life. Obviously one should not always be happy. You shouldn't be happy at a funeral. You should also have cause to go to a funeral (having friends, family, etc.). You should also do things you might hate or cause pain because long term they are good. Studying, running, etc. Life if full of these…

Surely happiness is not continuous feeling of bliss and joy.

For example parenthood can be a large collection of frustration and exhaustion, and still be one of the most powerful gate to happiness.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance "Amanda" is "she who must be loved." This is probably a joke but it still is an absurd category to think about. How can anyone be compelled (by what force?) to love someone else?

"Must" can mean "required" or "to have an obligation to". Thus, for example, we are morally obligated to love our children. But "love" here is not meant in the desiring sense of love ( eros , another Greek word) in which one desires something for one's own objective good, or even in the modern squishy sense of having fleeting pleasant or affectionate feelings for. Rather, something like agape (still another Greek wor…

Morally obligated by whom? There still has to be some external force.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never got too too far into the language, so I absolutely believe there are more layers and variances to the meaning than the basic glosses I learned! But that feels like it fits in the counterpoint/point kind of framework, I think? Just with an additional kind of "temporal" or "ordering" connotation.

It's not so much "on one hand yes, on the other hand no". It's more like "do the thing I want, but also at least do the thing I want too". But there's also the meaning of "this and that", so you might be right.

Yeah, that sounds right to me; like, "Sure that, but more importantly, this"?

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#206
Wonderful list. Arete/ἀρετή immediately had me in self reflection examining where I've fallen short of my ideals.

I'd love to be skilled in Ancient Greek but alas it's not so. Unfortunately, my understanding of Ancient Grecian classics I've read comes only from English translations (Benjamin Jowett and others), and, no doubt, as good and as scholarly these translations are, my somewhat limited knowledge of modern languages such as French and German tells me that even the best translations fall short of the ideal—that of reading and understanding a text in its own language.

Every language has words whose meanings don't translate exactly into other languages, they've nuances that are lost in translation and even though skilled translators may understand their subtleties they have limited choices and must compromise.

More than ever, what this excellent little article has brought home to me is that those differences in meaning are much wider and more nuanced in Ancient Greek than in modern languages by virtue that ancient Greeks had a different perception of life and the world around them than those of us familiar with modern life.

It's logical sense that words used by those whose perceptions of life are foreign to ours have no simple or direct translation. However that could be to our advantage—with our newly acquired knowledge of these wonderful words it would nice if we could expand our own horizons. Perhaps difficult, but if we started using them in their Ancient Grecian context that may come with time (it seems those Ancient Greeks still have much to teach us).

Whilst I've considered these matters previously, reading this story has made them much more poignant

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#207
post #143

I've always seen the appeal of ancient Greek culture in the West as a cultural bedrock on which Christianity and Enlightenment built upon. The very fact that we consider democracy as the best political system shows that clearly the ideas resonated with us from a historical and cultural point of view. However, in the modern age it seems like metamodernism has become king, and that is something that does not play well…

I also see deconstruction, nihilism and post-modernism as an abused tool. It was understandable after the non-sensical WWII. Many people do not know, but pre-WW2 people believed heavily in the perfection of mankind through technology and other means (such as architecture and so on)

This was not only a thing in Nazism where this is very apparent, but it was a kind of embedded in that time.

Ofcourse after the wars, people kind of embraced this post modernist, brutalistic and nihilistic, or non sense attitude. Take the Cobra and Dada movements in art, the book the Lord of the Flies, Brutalism of Corbusier.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#208

I've always liked "akrasia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrasia > Weakness of will to act against one's own better judgement. It's everywhere in modern society, and I'd love to see it called out more.

Ah, brilliant! I asked on a subreddit (I believe 'Tip of My Tongue'?) because I was trying to find a word that describes this.

Re: Ancient Greek terms worth reviving

#209
post #115

From a fun book I have “Philosophy in 40 Ideas” Eudaimonia THIS IS AN ANCIENT GREEK WORD, normally translated as 'fulfilment', particularly emphasised by the philosopher Aristotle. It deserves wider currency because it corrects the shortfalls in one of the most central terms in our contemporary idiom: happiness. The Ancient Greeks resolutely did not believe that the purpose of life was to be happy; they proposed that…

Eudaimonia means “good demons.” Plato used it to refer to the source of Socrates’ inspiration. Etymology of daimon might have it mean the apportioners, dividers or rationers. “With artificial intelligence we are summoning the demon” — Elon Musk Let’s hope for good demons! I’ve been thinking about it lately, and in a world that many believe is filled with intelligence and consciousness at different levels, it might ma…

Mathematics (can) model reality, not the other way around. I have immense respect for the humanities but your lecture looks like a lazy attempt to ride the AI hype.
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