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Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

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61–70 of 112 posts

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#61

> So my question is, is it fair to terminate a new developer because they use Firefox? I'm sorry for that bad experience. If you were instructed to change tools or given a warning prior to termination, the termination might be justified on grounds of insubordination, but not on merit. Either way, that place you just left carries a bigger red flag than you. > I'm not sure what to do next. Keep learning, get more exper…

Thank you. There was no warning. In-fact, every dev is free to setup their own local environment in whichever way the choose. There is no standard way to setup anything, and one of my goals was to setup my env and document everything step by step on the org's wiki. So that atleast we'd have one official, approved way of doing things. What is most shocking about it all, is they have an Angular app, which they are thin…

> How will I explain all this on my resume?

It's a 3 week gap, just omit it. If anyone asks, you were looking for a new job.

I've had jobs I didn't add to my resume because I don't want anything to do with those shitty companies ever again.

Nobody has ever questioned the <6 month gaps.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time gaps between jobs?

Three weeks aren't a gap, that's just a little time to relax between jobs.

I had already relaxed between jobs before getting this one... ;)

So it is more like a 3 month gap.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#63
post #35

Yes, it is fair to fire you for _any reason_ during the probation period (ok, maybe not for your ethnicity or religious reasons etc - but this is not what has happened here). It is also fair for you to leave on a short notice during the probation period for no reason. It is a two way street. Don't try to read more into this situation than what it really is. Either party did not like the other, no big deal, this happe…

I think you are missing the point. That one month gap in my resume? Very hard to explain. "So, they let you go why...." It is absolutely unfair, for someone to hire and fire you "for any reason". We are not slaves. Do your due diligence when hiring, and when firing. Is that too much to ask?

Sorry mate, we can argue about who is really missing the point here :)

The one month gap in your resume nobody cares about. Seriously, don't be so insecure! How do I know this - I just had a massive 8 months gap in mine, and still managed to land a contract in a new country which I was not yet living in, the language of which I don't really speak (yet), and hired in spite of my non-existing skills in FE dev for a full stack job. If I can do it like this, anyone can do it.

> Do your due diligence when hiring, and when firing. Is that too much to ask?

Yes, absolutely too much. If companies can't fire people, they will be much more reluctant to hire too, it's that simple. They will avoid hiring new people in any way they cna, have 2x more rounds of leetcode shite, and will fire you during probation anyway. You are not a slave, exactly because you can also leave any time. In fact, you should have done it before they fired you. The signs were clearly on the wall.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time gaps between jobs?

You received an inheritance and decided to travel.

Yes, lying is a much better option and couldn't possibly be uncovered and give [legitimate] grounds for dismissal.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#65
Based on what you've told us here, that's a bit weird.

Thing is, we only have half the story. We don't know what else happened in the meeting you were terminated, or got said or happened in the 3 weeks, we don't know what you did and didn't ask your mentor, we don't know how many roadblocks you hit because you're using Firefox and VS Code, we weren't there for the conversation there was about you using Chrome and Visual Studio, or more importantly, how you reacted. We don't know how good you actually are with Firefox and VS Code. If you're struggling to use Firefox and/or can't use VS code very well, which means no one else on the team can help you, and you actively discourage their efforts to help you, I could see that being a red flag.

That said, there are a few quotes elsewhere in this thread that give me an inkling that it's not about Firefox and VS code.

> So my question is, is it fair to terminate a new developer because they use Firefox?

Why is fair relevant? Fair is for board games with your family. This is the real world, and people in power can be as petty as they want. There's no principal of the tech industry to complain to, very little protection (assuming you're in the US, in an at-will state). There's no review board that says yup, that was unfair unless you're a protected class, and was constructively fired for being black/gay/old.

> They gave me a CSS ticket to fix one page last week, and I actually fixed all the pages!

I mean, it's important to get all of the pages, so it is important that you got all of them, but if you're telling us that you got all the pages, it sounds like there was a meeting that contained additional feedback for you, about how you did/finished the ticket and your attitude about it, and that was your defense in that meeting. Don't get me wrong, you sound hungry for it by pushing your boss to get the ticket - which is a good thing! (In certain environments, anyway.)

> as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate?

The "what" is quite important. Did the. senior dev/someone talk to you about how they'd like the fix implemented, and did you do it that way? How did the code review go? Are there formal code reviews?

Let me guess: you've heard yourself being described as insubordinate before?

As a senior dev, it's not just about what you deliver, or when you deliver, but also how you make people feel when you do it, especially as a jr dev. If you told the sr dev during your termination meeting instead of listening to what you were being told, and that "telling truth to power" is important enough to you that telling us that you said that to the sr dev really says there's more going on than Firefox and VS Code. It's possible that they "knew" that telling you that you need to work on social skills X, Y, or Z was going to go poorly, and Firefox and VS code is cover for you being difficult to work with and/or a bad cultural fit fit for the team.

> What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far.

It didn't get you very far in this job. If you have to stop to add a console.log ever time you have a question about the code instead of just setting a breakpoint and investigate the state at the point with built-in tools, I question your efficacy. If this were, say the Linux kernel that's a different story, but you're not, you're a frontend developer. Which are important these days, but a good one should have more tools in their toolbox than just console.log. It's fine to lean on that first, but it shouldn't be your only tool.

On the other hand, they could also be a bunch of jerks who suck, or there was some other power play in the company that resulted in the team losing headcount, but to save face to the rest of the team, they concocted this thing about Firefox.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#66
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think I was... good catch :) So they'd recently changed their policy from 2 days to 3 days work from office. Meaning the majority of dev time, would be spent at the office. I simply told my manager that since we'd be spending more time in the office, could they give us the equipment we need? One of the devs wanted an extra monitor, some other two devs were sharing a laptop charger, I'd been waiting 3 weeks for…

It sounds to me like the manager realised you weren’t a good fit for each other, and used the Firefox thing as a pretext.

To be honest, I believe me and the manager were a really good fit. If the choice was to move away from angular. As a developer, I believe we have the same values. He just felt I would be "too stressed with whats coming down the line" whatever that means.

If you hire someone because you think you are going for A, then change your mind about "what's coming down the line" and decide to stick with B, what is the proper way of letting them go?

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get it. I will not be surprised at all if the move to React never happened, and everything is still on angular8 one year from now. So why hire me in the fast place? Because they think they can just hire and then fire someone on a whim? If I don't do something about this, they will do it to someone else.

> If I don't do something about this, they will do it to someone else. Name and shame then? Don’t know how well this goes with the suing that everyone’s proposing though.

Have I named anyone here? Have I shamed anyone here?

All I have said, is I'm going to look into my rights as an employee, and question whether I was treated fairly. Why do you have a problem with that?

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far. I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways,…

I sort of agree with you: if I am reaching for the debugger I know I am in trouble! It is good for ... well ... bugs - things that got past QA and are hard to pin down. It is also good for CSS "hacking", as in why won't it work so let's play with different CSS settings.

I most definitely use the browser dev tools extensively. The debugger is just one of those tools, and it simply does not apply when it comes to CSS. The debugger is for JS bugs.

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#69
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing the point. That one month gap in my resume? Very hard to explain. "So, they let you go why...." It is absolutely unfair, for someone to hire and fire you "for any reason". We are not slaves. Do your due diligence when hiring, and when firing. Is that too much to ask?

Sorry mate, we can argue about who is really missing the point here :) The one month gap in your resume nobody cares about. Seriously, don't be so insecure! How do I know this - I just had a massive 8 months gap in mine, and still managed to land a contract in a new country which I was not yet living in, the language of which I don't really speak (yet), and hired in spite of my non-existing skills in FE dev for a ful…

> The one month gap in your resume nobody cares about. Seriously, don't be so insecure! How do I know this - I just had a massive 8 months gap in mine, and still managed to land a contract

Thanks mate. I'm happy for you.

> In fact, you should have done it before they fired you. The signs were clearly on the wall.

Honestly... not really. One day its "take all the time you need", the next it's "why are you using Firefox? That is a red flag on you, and please leave right now".

Re: Ask HN: Fired for Using Firefox

#70
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like the manager realised you weren’t a good fit for each other, and used the Firefox thing as a pretext.

To be honest, I believe me and the manager were a really good fit. If the choice was to move away from angular. As a developer, I believe we have the same values. He just felt I would be "too stressed with whats coming down the line" whatever that means. If you hire someone because you think you are going for A, then change your mind about "what's coming down the line" and decide to stick with B, what is the proper w…

It's hard to say, as I have almost no context except for what you can give me. I highly doubt you'd get anywhere taking legal action against them.

Also, are you posting here because you're frustrated and want to rant? That's OK, I do it too, but it's pointless me trying to offer advice if that's the case.

Or perhaps you are looking for advice? HN isn't great for that, so email me if you want, it's on my profile.

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