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A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

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Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#11

Post by rayiner »

fnimick wrote: post #8
fauxpause_ wrote: post #7

This is a very confusing article to me. It features a woman who talked about how her family had no work opportunities. But then had a job as a dental receptionist for 15 years, and got married to a guy with a sales manager job. She has bought a house and a motorbike. And now she does this beauty stuff. And she makes 20% more than her husband? The rest of it… eh. Seems like they’re suggesting a lot of this is just a m…

> Gig work seems like socialized slavery to me. You're not wrong, it's the logical next step for capitalism. "Again we have diluted ourselves into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice. The fact is that Capitalism was build on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and wh…

Well MLK was a theologian, not an economist. Many countries have capitalism and never had slavery. And while they have a mindset that isn’t “Protestant work ethic,” it’s indistinguishable in relevant part. E.g. Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. https://twitter.com/dnystedt/status/1558863974883823617

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#12

Post by [deleted] »

fnimick wrote: post #8
fauxpause_ wrote: post #7

This is a very confusing article to me. It features a woman who talked about how her family had no work opportunities. But then had a job as a dental receptionist for 15 years, and got married to a guy with a sales manager job. She has bought a house and a motorbike. And now she does this beauty stuff. And she makes 20% more than her husband? The rest of it… eh. Seems like they’re suggesting a lot of this is just a m…

> Gig work seems like socialized slavery to me. You're not wrong, it's the logical next step for capitalism. "Again we have diluted ourselves into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice. The fact is that Capitalism was build on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and wh…

[deleted]

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#13

Post by throwaway426079 »

fauxpause_ wrote: post #7

This is a very confusing article to me. It features a woman who talked about how her family had no work opportunities. But then had a job as a dental receptionist for 15 years, and got married to a guy with a sales manager job. She has bought a house and a motorbike. And now she does this beauty stuff. And she makes 20% more than her husband? The rest of it… eh. Seems like they’re suggesting a lot of this is just a m…

I don't liken it to slavery, but most wage (or salaried) labor looks like this. Making sure your employer thinks well of you (your 'rating'), getting certifications (some employers will pay, but not all).

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#14

Post by lelandfe »

gumby wrote: post #9
lelandfe wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty common. The NYT does this with large stories. I think it’s a nice way to add some mood-setting images and concepts.

That's what a first paragraph is for.

It pretty clearly serves different purposes, given your different reactions to them :)

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#15

Post by marcellus23 »

rayiner wrote: post #11
fnimick wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gig work seems like socialized slavery to me. You're not wrong, it's the logical next step for capitalism. "Again we have diluted ourselves into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice. The fact is that Capitalism was build on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and wh…

Well MLK was a theologian, not an economist. Many countries have capitalism and never had slavery. And while they have a mindset that isn’t “Protestant work ethic,” it’s indistinguishable in relevant part. E.g. Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. https://twitter.com/dnystedt/status/1558863974883823617

> Many countries have capitalism and never had slavery

You ignored the second part of his statement, where he claimed that since slavery ended, capitalism has been propped up by the exploitation of the poor. Those countries may not have slaves but they do have poor people.

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#16

Post by kaitai »

This is classic. It would be helpful for folks to put this into context.

Madame CJ Walker was the first self-made woman millionaire in America. She created beauty products for Black women, a deeply underserved market, and recruited thousands of women to sell them directly to consumers (as well as through salons or mail-order). The women working for her earned good commissions, by all accounts, so that's a bit different. Through history, the opportunity to earn money directly through gig work has been very important to women and their financial independence, as in so many cultures they must fit remunerated work around other caregiving.

So, great opportunity -- but with any great opportunity comes sharks and grifters. Multilevel marketing schemes where you've got to recruit others -- great example, big in religious and military families in the US. Slightly less predatory schemes where you nevertheless need to "invest in the product" and pay for inventory on hand, assuming personal risk for the company. And that's not even getting into the personal safety concerns of going into peoples' homes.

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#17

Post by gumby »

lelandfe wrote: post #14
gumby wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what a first paragraph is for.

It pretty clearly serves different purposes, given your different reactions to them :)

Good point, I should be thinking of this positively: it's an excellent screener for articles that won't interest me, saving me time up front.

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#18

Post by xyzzyz »

marcellus23 wrote: post #15
rayiner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well MLK was a theologian, not an economist. Many countries have capitalism and never had slavery. And while they have a mindset that isn’t “Protestant work ethic,” it’s indistinguishable in relevant part. E.g. Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. https://twitter.com/dnystedt/status/1558863974883823617

> Many countries have capitalism and never had slavery You ignored the second part of his statement, where he claimed that since slavery ended, capitalism has been propped up by the exploitation of the poor. Those countries may not have slaves but they do have poor people.

All countries have poor people. The capitalist ones have fewest of them, because capitalism makes poor people wealthier, unlike alternatives, which make them starve and die.

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#19

Post by fauxpause_ »

throwaway426079 wrote: post #13
fauxpause_ wrote: post #7

This is a very confusing article to me. It features a woman who talked about how her family had no work opportunities. But then had a job as a dental receptionist for 15 years, and got married to a guy with a sales manager job. She has bought a house and a motorbike. And now she does this beauty stuff. And she makes 20% more than her husband? The rest of it… eh. Seems like they’re suggesting a lot of this is just a m…

I don't liken it to slavery, but most wage (or salaried) labor looks like this. Making sure your employer thinks well of you (your 'rating'), getting certifications (some employers will pay, but not all).

The risk profile is different though. An employer is going to see you every day. They’re incentivized at least on some level to have a good faith relationship. They can fire you, but that inconveniences them even if you’re totally fungible.

A gig employer is unlikely to work with you again regardless. They don’t have much of a reason to care about you. And if they rate you poorly, that can potentially shut you out of the market entirely. Or cause you to pay for costly and timely retrainings like the article.

It’s a much harsher employment contract imo.

Re: A startup ushered thousands of Indian women into gig work, for better and worse

#20

Post by fauxpause_ »

fnimick wrote: post #8
fauxpause_ wrote: post #7

This is a very confusing article to me. It features a woman who talked about how her family had no work opportunities. But then had a job as a dental receptionist for 15 years, and got married to a guy with a sales manager job. She has bought a house and a motorbike. And now she does this beauty stuff. And she makes 20% more than her husband? The rest of it… eh. Seems like they’re suggesting a lot of this is just a m…

> Gig work seems like socialized slavery to me. You're not wrong, it's the logical next step for capitalism. "Again we have diluted ourselves into believing the myth that Capitalism grew and prospered out of the protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice. The fact is that Capitalism was build on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and wh…

I’m not clear what he is talking about here. It sounds like he is referring the lack of the right to hold certain jobs.

Which is I suppose is adjacent to the gig economy controls.

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