Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users • Hacker News Board

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#151

Post by rekoil » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #20

Google now seems deep into the enshittification [1] process. Of all the big tech companies, they seemed the most customer-friendly, the least constrained by the need to optimize their money hose. But I guess the economic logic of tying executive compensation to short-term share price simply overwhelmed other considerations. The stock must go up, so revenues must grow, so Google must monetize everything to the maximum…

> But I guess now it's time to start looking at different email providers.

Already moved to Proton personally, I was OK with Google G-Suite or whatever the hell it's called these days when it was free, because I was trading my data for a pretty good service, but then they wanted to slap a price tag on it simply because they could, and to me that was a clear signal it was time to get out.

I'm not paying for Google to monetise my data.

Protons spam filter isn't as good, the keyboard shortcuts are taking some getting used to (really wish they would implement a "Gmail-like keyboard shortcuts" option), and message search could be improved (I'm sure it will), but besides those I don't miss a thing, and knowing that my privacy is respected is by itself worth the price tag.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#152

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

yamtaddle wrote: post #111

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #18

The availability of free email services is a wonderful thing. But if email is important to you, it probably shouldn't be in Gmail.

In the US, it's pretty ridiculous that the USPS isn't doing email yet. Free account with some strict limits (especially on per-day sending) for all residents, paid options available, support at post office locations and partner libraries. It's nigh-necessary for communicating with government and participating in the economy—USPS ought to do email.

That would make a ton of sense to me. It fits in with the USPS' existing mission, and would ensure a brick and mortar location citizens could prove their real physical identity to regain access to their online account.

It probably wouldn't help you escape email ads though, the USPS is heavily funded by bulk mail.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#153

Post by s1artibartfast » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #144

twelfthnight wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a real thing. I worked at a consulting company partnered with McDonald's and they asked if we could help them optimize the number of sesame seeds on their burger buns.

Also raises the question: why does an executive need a consulting company to tell them to put less seeds on the bun? We can accept that "optimize" does not mean more...so...?

The question makes perfect sense to me. I don't know the ideal number of seeds on a bun off hand, and don't expect the executive does either. Do you know it?

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#154

Post by jerjerjer » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

LeonM wrote: post #108

mikro2nd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"free use of Gmail" but only if you're using Google's email client. If you're using the POP (and, presumably, IMAP) API, you're not going to see any ads, amiright?

AFAIK you don't get ads in the Google email client as well, only when using gmail.com from your browser. When using any POP/IMAP client, you won't get ads as the POP/IMAP protocol has no provisioning for it. Unless Google injects the ad into the email body (which is near impossible to do reliably) they cannot show ads even if they want to.

Fake ad emails. Coming soon.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#155

Post by htag » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

laylomo2 wrote: post #11

Just another logical step in Google’s brand erosion. After a sufficient erosion has taken place a new CEO will be appointed to “bring back” the old Google. But by then it will be too late.

Will it be too late? Balmer's stench is almost completely off Microsoft.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#156

Post by crazygringo » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #148

crazygringo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That analogy doesn't hold up. Because if consumers genuinely don't notice the sesame seeds are gone, that means they never cared in the first place, and this is a better outcome for everyone. Why were farmers growing useless sesame seeds in the first place? Now they can switch to blueberries or whatever and the world is better off. It's kind of like, thank god those nasty canned olive slices finally disappeared from…

This isn't why this happens. If you are an exec at MCD, your main focus is on making numbers. That is it. Your bonus is based on this, your options are based on beating expectations...nothing else matters. What this means in practice is that companies look for ways to cut costs and fill gaps when a number comes in light (because you can cut costs immediately but growing revenue requires long-term investment). And, ov…

Since you brought up McD's, then how do you explain why they're now rolling out Big Macs with more sauce, not less [1]? Along with a bunch of other improvements like melting cheese rather than sticking it on burgers cold.

If nothing else matters than making numbers in a quarter, if companies "only ever cut back on things like product", then how do you explain this example of actual corporate behavior?

It's not like McD's vs Burger King is full of competition in a way that Hellman's vs Miracle Whip isn't, to use your mayonnaise example. (Or Kraft, or store-brand, to continue with mayo.)

This idea that there are major "limits to competition" in "almost every consumer-facing product" just isn't reality. Companies compete with each other ruthlessly.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/mcdonalds-t...

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#157

Post by Wowfunhappy » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

balderdash wrote: post #114

Mistletoe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I naive to think that when you make $226 million in a year like Pichai that money should stop being your major driving force and that your reputation is more important? Like what else could he buy? But his reputation is taking severe hits. Maybe I just don't understand ultra rich people though. Maybe money is everything.

Part (and I do mean part) of the explanation is that people’s expectations around peer group and lifestyle changes. He’s probabaly looking at Larry Ellison and feeling poor, and that he needs to have (make up a number) $1b in the bank to support his lifestyle (planes, houses, hobbies, philanthropic giving, etc.). I bet if you asked in 2004 (pre-google) what the comparable number was, it was like $20-40m…

What type of lifestyle does $1 billion make available that is not already affordable with $200 million?

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#158

Post by charcircuit » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #142

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #20

Google now seems deep into the enshittification [1] process. Of all the big tech companies, they seemed the most customer-friendly, the least constrained by the need to optimize their money hose. But I guess the economic logic of tying executive compensation to short-term share price simply overwhelmed other considerations. The stock must go up, so revenues must grow, so Google must monetize everything to the maximum…

Their financial model is similar to a TV or newspaper. Imagine you create a newspaper, you start out showing no ads, lots of people buy it, it is all good. Then you raise money from investors to grow, and they start asking for more revenue. So you add one advertisement. Then the investors want out, so you have to IPO...more ads. Then you have to keep the share price up because execs want options, and your HR consulta…

>The ability to add more advertisements is limited by the space in the newspaper, but there is almost no marginal cost associated with adding more ads.

You are also limited by potentially causing users to stop buying the newspaper. Google will be matching the metrics to see if users actually use the app less when adding more ads. It's possibile there will be no statistically significant difference and consumers are okay with the new ad level. If they start leaving Google can revert the change.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#159

Post by csydas » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

deergomoo wrote: post #145

racl101 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I caved in. Paying now. But I realized I watch more docs on YouTube than any other streaming video platform. More than Netflix, more than Prime, more than Disney+, more than HBO. So I cancelled Netflix and Disney+ and now just keep HBO and Prime. I don't love Prime but I still like the Prime delivery. So whatever, makes sense. I consume YouTube the most. Might as well not make my life hell and suffer through add…

I had the same realisation. At this point, YouTube Premium is probably the subscription I would give up last. Premium is (for now) quite a nice experience, and there is so much nerdy niche content that would never get made commercially, certainly not to the same scale. I have noticed that my recommendations seem to be getting worse lately, but unsure if that's a flaw in the algorithm or because I've spent years drain…

Out of curiosity, what does Premium do for you that is a positive? This is an earnest question, as recently my old Android phone died and I got a new iPhone.

On Android, I'd just use Newpipe[0] which I absolutely loved; they kept up with Youtube's breaking changes (usually a day-of debug build until the fix reached the main release), and it was such a nice and out of the way music player with everything you could want. (Adhoc playlists, great functionality for queue next/queue, really intuitive UI, backgrounding, etc)

On iOS, I wasn't really able to find an equivalent besides side-loading modified Youtube.app clients to enable the basic features I'd want (all of which are locked behind premium normally). Even with the premium features unlocked, the Youtube app really doesn't behave like an iOS app should, and it's significantly worse than Newpipe in my opinion.

So I'm just curious what about Premium is worth it for you and what it brings that justifies being a subscription. If the answer is just "it's the only option", I get it, can't really argue with that, but really hoping there's something I'm missing that makes Youtube Premium more palatable.

0 - https://newpipe.net

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#160

Post by evantbyrne » Mon, May 08, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

o10449366 wrote: post #28

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #20

Google now seems deep into the enshittification [1] process. Of all the big tech companies, they seemed the most customer-friendly, the least constrained by the need to optimize their money hose. But I guess the economic logic of tying executive compensation to short-term share price simply overwhelmed other considerations. The stock must go up, so revenues must grow, so Google must monetize everything to the maximum…

Customer-friendly? Maybe if you've never required support or human engagement for any issue. If you have, Google is by far the worst among the big tech companies.

Yeah, isn't this the company that is notorious for screwing account holders with AI automoderation? Like the Terraria dev that was reportedly locked out of his email while working on a Stadia port.