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Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

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Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#141
post #59

Google's products do seem to be getting progressively shittier, in profound and confusing ways. take their home assistant, which used to be able to find information online and compose an answer to your natural langauges queries. Now she just says "I don't know, but I found this online..." Google Search seems to be getting truly terrible. Results completely unrelated to what I'm looking for are placing in the first pa…

I agree that the "Share" modal on Android is one of the most confusing parts of the OS. It makes more sense if you try thinking of it as UI kludge, a halfway measure that tries to speak to an audience of 'digital natives' who didn't grow up with copy/paste and multi-window tasking, as well as the prior generation accustomed to more traditional computing functions.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#142

Google now seems deep into the enshittification [1] process. Of all the big tech companies, they seemed the most customer-friendly, the least constrained by the need to optimize their money hose. But I guess the economic logic of tying executive compensation to short-term share price simply overwhelmed other considerations. The stock must go up, so revenues must grow, so Google must monetize everything to the maximum…

Their financial model is similar to a TV or newspaper.

Imagine you create a newspaper, you start out showing no ads, lots of people buy it, it is all good.

Then you raise money from investors to grow, and they start asking for more revenue. So you add one advertisement.

Then the investors want out, so you have to IPO...more ads. Then you have to keep the share price up because execs want options, and your HR consultant tells you that the "top" execs need to see a rising share price (as if you need a "top" exec to add more ads to a webpage)...more ads.

The ability to add more advertisements is limited by the space in the newspaper, but there is almost no marginal cost associated with adding more ads. So it looks like very clean growth, very strong economics.

This is basically how Google and Facebook work. Their revenue growth looks puzzling because they seem to achieve very consistent, very predictable revenue growth with no extra resources. The reason why is that they can add more ads to a page very easily, and can control their level of revenue growth so they can keep employees/investors happy (in that order). It is true that they have also achieved some pricing growth but that advantage has been capped (and is largely a function of their monopolistic position, i.e. Doubleclick allows Google to play both sides). Most of their growth has been increasing ads per page.

There is no way for them to function as public companies in this environment (again, I would say the situation with employees is actually taken more seriously than investors) without making their product worse. They won't stop before the product collapses.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#143
post #77
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you think "investors/shareholders" are bad and private owners, good? Private owners are just 100% owning shareholders, whatever notions you have about one group you should have about the other. You have no guarantee a private owner wouldn't speed up the enshittification process.

> You have no guarantee a private owner wouldn't speed up the enshittification process. Sure, but as a private company at least you control who who wants to do that and are not bound by the "the price must go up" behavior of the shareholders since you only care about the dividends (this is a oversimplification).

> you control

You who? The owner?

> behavior of the shareholders

The owner is a shareholder too. It's all the same thing, you're creating distinction where there is none. If anything a public company has way more controls and transparency. People usually cry when a company is taken private by private equity to squeeze every cent out of it. What do you think private equity is if not "a private owner not bound by shareholders"?

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#144

I liken this to a sesame seed bun manufacturer. After some experimentation, they realize that shaving roughly 10 sesame seeds from each bun means they save one cent every 100 buns. They continue to sell the buns at the normal price and consumers are none the wiser: After all, who's going to notice 10 sesame seeds missing? But the sesame seed bun manufacturer continues the experiment. They continue to remove the seeds…

This is actually a real thing. I worked at a consulting company partnered with McDonald's and they asked if we could help them optimize the number of sesame seeds on their burger buns.

Also raises the question: why does an executive need a consulting company to tell them to put less seeds on the bun? We can accept that "optimize" does not mean more...so...?

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#145
post #21
post #14

Only GMail? YouTube is almost unusable nowadays.

Yeah I caved in. Paying now. But I realized I watch more docs on YouTube than any other streaming video platform. More than Netflix, more than Prime, more than Disney+, more than HBO. So I cancelled Netflix and Disney+ and now just keep HBO and Prime. I don't love Prime but I still like the Prime delivery. So whatever, makes sense. I consume YouTube the most. Might as well not make my life hell and suffer through add…

I had the same realisation. At this point, YouTube Premium is probably the subscription I would give up last. Premium is (for now) quite a nice experience, and there is so much nerdy niche content that would never get made commercially, certainly not to the same scale.

I have noticed that my recommendations seem to be getting worse lately, but unsure if that's a flaw in the algorithm or because I've spent years draining the backlogs of the channels I follow.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#146

I switched to fastmail.com a few years ago. It's not expensive and so far seems to work quite well for me.

There's a thousand little things that just feel better with fastmail. Loading the Gmail webapp is so slow that I sometimes switch to HTML only. Fastmail: fast. Or if I get a message, I read it via a mobile app notification, and decide to delete it. For Gmail I need to open open the app to find a delete button. Fastmail lets you do that from the notification. I assume Gmail is trying to prioritize archive over delete, but I actually want to delete things.

I forgot Gmail has ads since I block them, but I never would have believed in 2006 that Gmail would one day look like these screenshots. Horrible.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#147

Google now seems deep into the enshittification [1] process. Of all the big tech companies, they seemed the most customer-friendly, the least constrained by the need to optimize their money hose. But I guess the economic logic of tying executive compensation to short-term share price simply overwhelmed other considerations. The stock must go up, so revenues must grow, so Google must monetize everything to the maximum…

Most of the people at Google now got in on their third try. That means Ads/Search/Brain etc rejected them for not meeting the bar, but they kept on going because they wanted the brand-name job. Lots of employees who are open to serving the brand versus evolving it.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#148

I liken this to a sesame seed bun manufacturer. After some experimentation, they realize that shaving roughly 10 sesame seeds from each bun means they save one cent every 100 buns. They continue to sell the buns at the normal price and consumers are none the wiser: After all, who's going to notice 10 sesame seeds missing? But the sesame seed bun manufacturer continues the experiment. They continue to remove the seeds…

That analogy doesn't hold up. Because if consumers genuinely don't notice the sesame seeds are gone, that means they never cared in the first place, and this is a better outcome for everyone. Why were farmers growing useless sesame seeds in the first place? Now they can switch to blueberries or whatever and the world is better off. It's kind of like, thank god those nasty canned olive slices finally disappeared from…

This isn't why this happens.

If you are an exec at MCD, your main focus is on making numbers. That is it. Your bonus is based on this, your options are based on beating expectations...nothing else matters.

What this means in practice is that companies look for ways to cut costs and fill gaps when a number comes in light (because you can cut costs immediately but growing revenue requires long-term investment). And, over time, you see significant deterioration in product from lots of decisions made to make a number in a quarter.

An even more interesting aspect of this problem is that these companies only ever cut back on things like product. FMCGs were doing this for years, and most companies in the sector were still horribly overstaffed.

You are right, this doesn't happen in industries where there is more competition. But this is not true for almost every consumer-facing product where there are limits to competition. Indeed, FMCGs have been reducing product quality for years but it has only been changing consumer tastes that has led to more innovation through new products/categories. In other wards, no-one tries to start a new mayonnaise company because Hellmann's began adding more oil...you try to get distribution into the large grocery stores, and they will laugh you out the door (but you turn up with a vegan mayonnaise, and they are interested).

Another example of this is Tesco in the UK. They are famous for producing executives which make a series of short-term decisions over a very long period that add up to a bad situation (and there is no new competition, Tesco over-index to locations that have no other supermarket chains...you would lose tens of billions trying to just get a foothold).

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#149
post #21
post #14

Only GMail? YouTube is almost unusable nowadays.

Yeah I caved in. Paying now. But I realized I watch more docs on YouTube than any other streaming video platform. More than Netflix, more than Prime, more than Disney+, more than HBO. So I cancelled Netflix and Disney+ and now just keep HBO and Prime. I don't love Prime but I still like the Prime delivery. So whatever, makes sense. I consume YouTube the most. Might as well not make my life hell and suffer through add…

Paying for premium doesn't even do enough, IMO. I pay for premium and it's worth the cost to remove the barrage of ad bumpers from videos, but YouTube is still completely cluttered with promoted content. If I turn on my TV to YouTube I want to see just my recommendations - just my actual recommendations, not fake recommendations designed to trick me into consuming whatever Youtube wants. I have not once ever watched news coverage on YouTube yet it seems like any workday that happens to coincide with a national tragedy, YouTube wants to make that the front page of my TV when I sit down after work.

Re: Google appears to be scaling up the ads it shows to Gmail users

#150
Remember when gmail first came out like almost 20 years ago? You had to get an invite! People loved it. It was a big deal - it made people actually love google. It wasn't just a search engine, it was this awesome company making awesome things and sharing them with you and it just made so much sense. Gmail was a billion times better than the alternatives (hotmail? yahoo mail?) and the competition just looked lazy and bad. The early 2000s was a wild time when the internet and computers got fast enough that it was unleashing all these pent up ideas that suddenly could actually work. But nowadays it's like nobody knows what to do next, so we just spin our wheels optimizing ads and making the world terrible with recommender systems.
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