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A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

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Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#11

Post by JellyBeanThief »

kstenerud wrote: post #9

> If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. > You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. Wait.. what?? Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Is this really what normally happens?

Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity:

* You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early.

* You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind.

* It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave.

* You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up.

* The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the party, and if too many people leave they will be sad.

* It's a mandatory voluntary work "party", and you need to play along or you'll be considered not invested in your job.

* You were expecting to find a romantic interest here, and they're late, but you're still hoping they show.

* You've been avoiding people lately for reasons of your own, but your friends will become more worried if you don't display adequate sociability.

* You're a linchpin in your friend group--when you don't hang out, they tend not to hang with each other, and this is bad for at least one of them.

* It's a battle of the bands, and you need to defeat two of Ramona's seven evil exes.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#12

Post by mattlutze »

kstenerud wrote: post #9

> If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. > You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. Wait.. what?? Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Is this really what normally happens?

Many communities' implicit social contracts imply that it can be impolite to just leave in the middle of a party a person has been invited to.

If it's "I'm bored" but not "oh God, I hate this," a lot of folks will stick around to be kind to the party host.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#13

Post by 2b3a51 »

dang wrote: post #2

Reposts are fine after a year or so (this is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ) and it's good to have the classics reappear from time to time as the newer cohorts of users don't know about them yet. Related past threads... others? Shirky.com is gone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31038660 - April 2022 (143 comments, including from clay_shirky - perhaps he'll show up in this one too!) A Gr…

Just a (very late) contribution to the 'It's Gone' discussion.

Anyone with a legacy blog that is causing headaches: perhaps wget to extract the static html pages and pop them somewhere?

Archive.org is always available as a last resort of course.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#14

Post by roenxi »

JellyBeanThief wrote: post #11
kstenerud wrote: post #9

> If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. > You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. Wait.. what?? Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Is this really what normally happens?

Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity: * You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early. * You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind. * It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave. * You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up. * The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the pa…

* You may not have ever seen a lynch mob form, but your genes are very nervous about developing a reputation as the least loyal person in the group. For reasons you don't understand, you display social signals that the group is important to you.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#15

Post by roenxi »

dang wrote: post #2

Reposts are fine after a year or so (this is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html ) and it's good to have the classics reappear from time to time as the newer cohorts of users don't know about them yet. Related past threads... others? Shirky.com is gone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31038660 - April 2022 (143 comments, including from clay_shirky - perhaps he'll show up in this one too!) A Gr…

Have you considered adding some notes to the guidelines based on articles like this? It talks about group-forming habits that on HN I'd imagine you want people alert to and then avoiding.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#17

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

gsatic wrote: post #10

Chat gpt et al seem to have changed the game. We dont need to get human groups to work better, if the output of a group can be outperformed by an algo.

Chat GPT is going to build a fusion reactor?

Fight the war in Ukraine?

Find a way to slow muscle atrophy?

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#18

Post by nicky0 »

kstenerud wrote: post #9

> If you were in a bookstore and you said, “I’m done,” you’d walk out. If you were in a coffee shop and said, “This is boring,” you’d walk out. > You’re sitting at a party, and you decide, “I don’t like this; I don’t want to be here.” And then you don’t leave. Wait.. what?? Why would someone stick around at a party they don't like? Is this really what normally happens?

Behaving unauthentically is a form of masking that some of is learn to do because we receive the msssage that certain behaviour is not accepted.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#19

Post by HPsquared »

roenxi wrote: post #14
JellyBeanThief wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible reasons, approximately in order of increasing complexity: * You were invited, and it would be awkward to leave too early. * You're someone's +1, and it would be awkward to leave them behind. * It's a party for you, and it would be ungrateful to leave. * You're intoxicated, and it's not safe for you to drive right now, so you need to wait until you sober up. * The host put in a lot of effort to arrange the pa…

* You may not have ever seen a lynch mob form, but your genes are very nervous about developing a reputation as the least loyal person in the group. For reasons you don't understand, you display social signals that the group is important to you.

This indeed. Basic mammal brain stuff. Herding instinct is just as strong as the others.

Re: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy [pdf] (2005)

#20

Post by cookieperson »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #17
gsatic wrote: post #10

Chat gpt et al seem to have changed the game. We dont need to get human groups to work better, if the output of a group can be outperformed by an algo.

Chat GPT is going to build a fusion reactor? Fight the war in Ukraine? Find a way to slow muscle atrophy?

Don't worry chat gpt is just showing us all who has antisocial personalities and lacks understanding or empathy for the human condition. Nothing you say matters to them. It's their way of trying to prove to themselves that only they matter and other human beings aren't worth their time.
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