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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

dywypi.org

171–180 of 334 posts

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#171
post #153
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but no, you're just illustrating the problem I've mentioned. In a virtual memory system with on-demand paging, memory mapped I/O, shared libraries and copy on write pages even measuring and interpreting memory stats is very difficult and subtle. The "real memory" column is resident set size, a completely useless metric for the problem at hand because of many reasons. One reason is that much of the physical pag…

You are missing the point. The idea is not to determine exactly what's going on, because that doesn't matter. You mentioned the casual user before, but all these details are only important to specialists trying to debug an issue with a specific application. When you run out of RAM, it is completely irrelevant which application is thrashing, because the problem is that you run out of RAM . It doesn't matter if the rea…

Fantastic argument, user is having a problem, but it doesn't matter what's going on, let the user try arbitrary things which I already explained that are folklore and why they make no sense, maybe it works.

If that's you advocate, let's stop here with this discussion, as there's no common ground.

When you're having a problem, first you try to understand it in order to try to solve the root cause. Applying rules of thumb like "kill top RSS process" are as sensible as rules of thumb regarding running repair permissions, sizing paging files or hoping arbitrary herbs cure arbitrary diseases.

Activity Monitor is useless because it's impossible to assess how a specific action will affect the system. Users should understand what's going on when they kill a process and the tools should help them to do so. When people do something, they should understand it, even casual users. Activity Monitor exposes data that's not understood by most users, although it leaves the impression that it does.

Just for trivia, memory pressure, hasn't been the primary reason for "the whole system become sluggish" for a few years already.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#173
post #109
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Activity Monitor is a tool too blunt for these kind of scenarios. It pains me, Mac OS X has DTrace which makes it a breeze to find out what really happens, however, the only GUI tools built on top of DTrace are profiler for programmers, nothing for the casual user. Activity Monitor presents data that's not really useful and does so in an intrusive manner and in a confusing display. Mac OS X already comes with parts o…

Well, I know the basic about SystemTap, but I'm not so much familiarized with low-level stuff, I'll look for DTrace to see what's happening. Thanks for the information.

SystemTap is a Linux thing, which you can use on Linux to see how this works, but it won't be a pleasant experience.

DTrace is also available on FreeBSD, so if you look at what happens on Mac OS X, it might be helpful or insightful to also look at what happens on FreeBSD.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do happen to have an 8 GB machine, and almost never reboot (only reboot for OS updates). I run half a menu-bar full of resident helper apps, like Dropbox (a big one), Fantastical, ScanSnap, Xmarks (another big one), Transmit (another big one), Evernote, and more. I also keep Apple Mail running, mapped to a half dozen Gmail IMAP accounts. I have "geek tool" updating my desktop with iCal appointments and various ps o…

I'm skeptical about your little script (though I too have a lot of heavy apps open all the time and almost never reboot, and certainly have never, ever had any memory-related problems whatsoever). My MBP has 8 GBs of RAM, and this is what Activity Monitor tells me: Free: 2.19 GB Wired: 1.01 GB Active: 3.70 GB Inactive: 1.08 GB Used: 5.80 GB but, you scripts gives me: 2598.480 MB Why is that? Isn't Active kinda analog…

I think that's because 'ps -x' command only gives your own processes and not all processes. Add '-a' option to show stats for all processes.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#175

Is there anyone who got Linux to work full on a Macbook or MB Pro? I get most flavors of Linux to boot and get a nice X running, however, things I cannot miss like the touchpad control, screen backlight controls and keyboard backlight are completely not working. Also the battery is falling faster than my Android under Linux. Is there any Linux working well? I have no problem with tweaking (I hacked on device drivers…

I ran Ubuntu 9.04 and 10.04 successfully on a MacbookPro 5,4 with very few hiccups for ~2 years. There's a bit of community support around Ubuntu for getting it running on Mac hardware, but your results may vary. rEFIt and friends are a bit difficult to get working initially, but it's not impossible.

I had the same feeling as the author: displays are a pain in Linux. The sound, wireless and touchpad support weren't as seamless as they are in OSX either.

Even now I've just switched back to OSX because my Ubuntu partition stopped booting, and I do most of my work over ssh on an Ubuntu VM with gnu screen / bash / vim.

The thing I miss most from running Linux desktop is the highlight to copy, middle-click to paste clipboard.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#176

Interesting. I am using OS X 10.5.8 with only 2G memory and when programming with Python, PHP, gcc and Apache this is actually OK. Not brilliant, but not slow either. The machine tends to be on all day. I have noticed that Linux does seem to page more than it used to in recent years, this varies with the kernel. There is more Linux disk activity these days than in previous versions, regardless of what swappiness I te…

It's because you're using 10.5, last of the great OS-X's. Performance requirements went up in 10.6 and WAY up in 10.7. I have an old MBPro running 10.5 and it consistently feels faster (and is provably far more stable) than my new model work machine running 10.7

Really? Glad in many ways I am still using 10.5 then. I've no problem with stability. As you mention it seems quite rock solid.

I had no idea that the memory requirement for 10.6 or 10.7 was so high (I've heard anecdotal comments from non-tech friends). But then I'd also heard the official Apple line that 10.6 was meant to be better at memory management and slightly faster than 10.5 because the binaries were no longer dual PPC and Intel -- just Intel.

So, in God's name, why are the later versions so resource hungry?

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#177

Is there anyone who got Linux to work full on a Macbook or MB Pro? I get most flavors of Linux to boot and get a nice X running, however, things I cannot miss like the touchpad control, screen backlight controls and keyboard backlight are completely not working. Also the battery is falling faster than my Android under Linux. Is there any Linux working well? I have no problem with tweaking (I hacked on device drivers…

I have a late 2008 unibody Macbook running Ubuntu + Gnome3 (no Unity). Almost everything worked without configuring. Brightness control required one line to xorg.conf and Airplay required installation of one Pulseaudio module.

I really like Gnome 3. It's much faster than Lion in that machine (4 GB of RAM, SSD), the battery lasts the same in my normal use as in Lion, the user interface fits for my freetime use, the visuals are simple and pretty and best of all: Nvidia has much better drivers for Linux than for OSX, so I'm actually able to play Minecraft without any hiccups.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that you used OS X for a year. I've been using my Mac for 4 years, and Linux for another 4. And I have Python (in fact I have at the same time Python 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3 and 3.1 for testing purposes), I have installed so many packages I already lost the count. You only need to be sure the path is correct when doing it. And I have 2 Gigs of RAM. Mac OS can be a bit hungry, but there's an "easy" sol…

>Closing unused applications. That's not a solution, that's a workaround. I'm sitting here with a 4GB RAM machine running Arch Linux with XMonad. I usually run the following applications in day to day usage: - Firefox Nightly with 50-100 tabs (largest memory hog, the rest doesn't even come close) - Thunderbird - Pidgin - XChat - smplayer, which I usually keep open - deluge - mpd + ncmpcpp - half to one dozen of termi…

Emulating a setup similar to yours, the OSX machine infront of me sits a 2.8GB active, of which a little less than 800MB are taken by Terminal.app due to me having activated infinite scrollback and having two rails processes being hit 8 hours a day since like forever as I develop. So it's really closer to 2GB and I didn't even try hard. This includes mds+mdworker (the indexer) which clocks in at 200MB. Normally I also have LibreOffice, Pixelmator, iCal, iTunes, Reeder, VMWare Fusion, which makes it balloon to 3.1GB and up as I open more documents/VMs.

OSX is not doing anything "wrong".

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#179
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That being said, if debian can do it for around 30,000 packages on almost as many architectures as OSX has mere hardware models, why can't OSX do it? With all the app stores and cloud services, Apple is big on 'quite a bit of infrastructure'.

Because Apple don't provide these package management tools, volunteering third-parties do. Apple are never going to provide Linux-style package management tools because the market for them is minuscule compared to Apple's real market: normal people. For normal people, there's the App Store.

It may not have started out that way (but it may have, I'm not sure), but MacPorts is an Apple hosted project: http://www.macosforge.org/

What they don't host is the source or compiled versions of any of the packages in the MacPorts repository - potentially for the same reason they include no GPLv3 software in their OS.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#180
That's a pretty self-indulgent rant. I've got nothing against the ultimate decision by any means, but that decision is being rationalized -- and rationalized poorly.

8GB of RAM costs $39. If the OPs time is worth so little that they'd rather stew for 5-10 minutes every day waiting for repair permissions to finish, then that's simply their choice. FWIW, I haven't done anything like that on my 4GB MB Air since I bought it, and it almost never gets rebooted. Granted the SSD makes VM usage a lot more transparent, but still...

The software installation comment displays a lack of understanding of what's going on with the App Store; e.g., it's new, things are still ramping up, etc.

As an aside, my 2-cents to anyone new to the platform is to stay away from MacPorts. It does things just differently enough to make future updates (outside of what they provide, or before they get around to providing it) a potential time-sink to sort out. Not worth it to me; it's easy enough to build what you need, and there are plenty of places for excellent guidance.

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