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The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

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Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#81

Post by intelVISA »

markatto wrote: post #79
intelVISA wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda expensive when I checked their offerings. They charge €40pcm for an i7-4770, 32GB RAM, 2x SSD which can be bought for around €100 from any IT surplus (given it's around a decade old) and thrown in a libre/GPL colo at your local hacker space for single digits pcm.

That’s not their best hardware deal, but you also have to understand that you are paying for rack space, electricity, bandwidth, on-site staff for repairs, etc. They are actually absurdly inexpensive compared to competitors.

Fair, I looked at their other offerings and saw current gen specs at competitive rates - in that case we are agreed that's a lot better than most others.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#82

Post by catchnear4321 »

oweiler wrote: post #6
catchnear4321 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ever completed a project to find out 6+ months later that it was never used, for reasons? working on an existing mess with outstanding complaints at least better guarantees that it is a valued mess. some environments, that’s not about comfort, it is about survival.

There are enough devs who don't give a shit if the project is actually used... Or useful

yes, but not always on the project.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#83

Post by sph »

intelVISA wrote: post #77
sph wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're German but AFAIK they recently opened a datacenter in the US East and one in US West. They're much cheaper than the other offerings. I pay €35/mo for a 32GB RAM, 8-core, 2x SSD dedicated server with unlimited traffic. Elixir flies on that.

Kinda expensive when I checked their offerings. They charge €40pcm for an i7-4770, 32GB RAM, 2x SSD which can be bought for around €100 from any IT surplus (given it's around a decade old) and thrown in a libre/GPL colo at your local hacker space for single digits pcm.

I got a i7-7700k which is more recent and cheaper than that, so it's overall a good deal.

EDIT: just the mobo, CPU and RAM is $300 on eBay. And let me know which hackerspace has a dedicated maintenance team, SLA guarantees, unlimited traffic. Apples and oranges. I'm trying to run a business here, not run a Minecraft server.

Should I really be penny-pinching on what is $50/mo? It's two pizzas, at current market rates.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#84

Post by emodendroket »

heavyset_go wrote: post #74

> I really, really don’t like greenfield projects. There are too many options. Too many tools to chose and decisions to be made. All of the code has to be written, including the boilerplate and the boring stuff. Thanks but no thanks. Give me a messy project instead. I have a hard time relating. Some of my favorite gigs were where I got to come in and design projects from the ground up. It's where you get to exercise…

Well, you’re still doing that in an existing project. You’re just dealing with constraints that are in the current context frustrating or nonsensical.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#85

Post by chefandy »

GuB-42 wrote: post #69
chefandy wrote: post #5

I get that but I couldn't be more different: I love greenfield projects. I find designing a robust, performant and reliable architecture to be the most interesting part of the process.

I used to think like this, but as I worked on so many messy projects, I changed my mind. Designing a robust/performant/reliable architecture right from the start is not "interesting", it is effectively impossible unless you have divination skills. At some point, your architecture will suck, and restarting from scratch is usually a bad idea, and that's when things get interesting. That is, fixing the mess you created,…

Eh, I've got 20 years in tech under my belt and I'm totally comfortable with everything I do being temporal. I'm not talking about NASA reliable-- I dont work on stuff where downtime=dead people, so that's a big caveat-- I'm talking about day-to-day manageable for the length of its useful life. It can be good without being perfect forever. It can even be perfect for a little while and good enough for a long while and still be worth it.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#86

Post by acuozzo »

The beginning part is the work I truly enjoy doing. Is there a specific name for it?

I enjoy designing architecture and protocols, especially when doing so requires me to get down to the bits and even more when doing so requires me to work under tight constraints.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#87

Post by marssaxman »

intelVISA wrote: post #76
heavyset_go wrote: post #74

> I really, really don’t like greenfield projects. There are too many options. Too many tools to chose and decisions to be made. All of the code has to be written, including the boilerplate and the boring stuff. Thanks but no thanks. Give me a messy project instead. I have a hard time relating. Some of my favorite gigs were where I got to come in and design projects from the ground up. It's where you get to exercise…

Greenfield projects are the Elysian fields for makers. It definitely seperates the builders from the importers. No shade on the latter, a job's a job to most.

This particular maker-builder loves clean-up work. Yes, it's great when you have a free hand to design something beautiful and new, but it can be even more satisfying to begin with a mess, dig through the crud, find the heart of the machine, and polish it to a gleam. If you start with a perfectly clear vision, it is easy to feel disappointed by the rough edges and unpleasant quirks which inevitably creep into the finished product - but when you start with something ugly, which your work then uplifts, the result might be more than you hoped for.
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