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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#711

Post by xorcist »

worrycue wrote: post #673
Y-bar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: Look at how much innovation Apple managed to squeeze into Lightning after its launch… right?

Funny enough, if Micro-USB has been mandated by the EU, Lightning wouldn't even exist and everyone would have been stuck with the IMHO chunky Micro-USB.

Micro-USB was mandated by the EU. That's a large part of the reason we even have a standardized charging port.

This has been enforced since late 2012 (in draft since 2008) and is the reason why Apple had to include the micro-USB adapter in order to sell in the EU.

There is no reason for speculation since facts are available on your friendly neighborhood wiki. What we're seeing now is that the law is updated to enforce USB-C, which has been accommodated for a while.

The intent is not to standardize on an implementation forever, but to make the industry agree on a standard.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#712

Post by Dylan16807 »

worrycue wrote: post #673
Y-bar wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: Look at how much innovation Apple managed to squeeze into Lightning after its launch… right?

Funny enough, if Micro-USB has been mandated by the EU, Lightning wouldn't even exist and everyone would have been stuck with the IMHO chunky Micro-USB.

I'm pretty sure they still would have moved to C, a bit later than lightning happened but much earlier than they currently are.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#713

Post by baq »

revelio wrote: post #611
baq wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don’t. They’re supporting both standard and proprietary. My MacBook Pro is connected to a multi port USB-C charger 99% of the time, which also charges my phone and my headset. MagSafe sits in the backpack when I need to work somewhere else than my desk, which doesn’t happen much. I’d argue it’s the best of both worlds. If it only supported MagSafe I’d be seriously annoyed.

You do see that we're discussing the underlying principle here, right? Please, try to put aside the specifics of the exact hardware and understand that what matters here is the EU's descent into attempting to centrally plan technology. This tendency isn't specific to power cables, it's a clear trend across many sectors.

The EU had already centrally planned my 240V wall sockets and RJ-45 Ethernet plugs and I’m seriously grateful for it. I’ll happily accept USB-C for low voltage low amp DC charging on that list.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#714

Post by reustle »

brundolf wrote: post #695

I was going to upgrade my iPhone when the 14 came out, but when I found out about this I decided I could wait another year It's insulting that I can charge my MacBook and iPad with a USB-C cable, but still have to carry an extra cable just for my phone (and meanwhile my partner with an Android phone doesn't). I'm so excited to be done with all that

I wouldn't go as far as saying its "insulting", but agree that needing lightning for only my phone, magic keyboard, trackpad, and airpods, while everything else is using USB-C, is frustrating.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#715

Post by xorcist »

revelio wrote: post #598
blowski wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to eat salad this evening, but since I ate pizza for dinner last week, I realised there’s no point in me eating healthily tonight. Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others.

> Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others. That's the whole point: they cannot. You guys are missing the problem here. The exact same systems and people who made the bad decisions about masks and vaccines are the ones making the decisions about phone chargers. You can't say well obviously that decision was bad, but this one is good. Some of us recall that…

It specifically not the same people.

It's like when people claim standardized air port codes are made by the same people who sit in the security council, because both are UN bodies. It doesn't make it any more true.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#716

Post by sethd »

Puts wrote: post #234
sethd wrote: post #188

I really hope Apple keeps lightning and just includes a dongle for phones sold in the EU.

Would be interesting if you could elaborate on why you prefer lightning?

It’s easier to connect without looking (driving while keeping eyes on road or in the dark).

Feels more robust (as others mention), it’s harder to break the lightning connector on the phone side (where it matters and costs the most).

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#717

Post by reustle »

OptionX wrote: post #294

Why does Apple even care? They don't add chargers with their phones anyway. And overcharging for a regular usb-c charger with a Apple logo on it seems to be quite in their wheelhouse.

They get huge licensing fees for all of the approved lightning cables and devices out there.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#718

Post by sircastor »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #299
OptionX wrote: post #294

Why does Apple even care? They don't add chargers with their phones anyway. And overcharging for a regular usb-c charger with a Apple logo on it seems to be quite in their wheelhouse.

Public stance: To protect their users from the confusing variety of USB-C cables. Internal stance: Huge margins on overpriced USB-C cables that customers must buy to get the fast charging speeds.

We’re still just a few of years past USB-C cables that were physically destroying hardware. It’s annoying, but I appreciate the effort to protect their reputation against shoddy products.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#719

Post by troad »

viraptor wrote: post #317
auggierose wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the regulation now different for usb-C than it was for microusb? In that, Apple could ignore microusb, and still sell their phones in Europe? What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? They could not ship it now in Europe. So, all these examples referring to microusb are just really sloppy thinking. Which is exactly what I would expect from a huge bureaucracy…

Yes, the regulation is different now, a custom dongle won't be allowed this time. > What if Apple now comes out with a new standard much better than usb-c for their newest iPhone? Then they go to other manufacturers and say "we have a new, much better idea. we should collaborate on it, so that it's standardised and we can all use it next year". Then they all ship it in Europe and we all have a much better connector.…

> Then they go to other manufacturers and say "we have a new, much better idea. we should collaborate on it, so that it's standardised and we can all use it next year". Then they all ship it in Europe and we all have a much better connector. Win win win unless you want very proprietary connectors.

You somehow smoothly glossed over the part where Apple (and friends) have to convince a bureaucrat to allow them to do any of this. Where political imperatives ('we're gonna crack down on [foreign] big tech companies!') might incentivise a regulator to say no. Where the new cable no longer uses metal X, and all the manufacturers of metal X successfully lobby to 'save jobs' by protecting the old standard. And so on and so forth.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#720

Post by gumby »

Apple can defend itself, but that being said, I think the hype here is absurd:

> which had led many – including us – to speculate that these Apple-produced chargers would enable faster charging speeds on the iPhone 15 than third-party chargers from other manufacturers.

I believe the hysteria comes from a no-technical blogger not understanding the difference between the USB-C e-marker chip and MFI. Apple has nothing to gain by not using generic USB Power Delivery on phones as they do for all their other devices.*

Whether the will pursue MFI for other standard devices (keyboards, whatnot) is indeed unclear, but past precedent (the mac, mainly, but also ipads, as well as their history with bluetooth devices) suggests it's unlikely. In fact network effects argue against it. Apple would rather sell a phone than a low margin accessory.

So sure, such a thing is technically possible, but from a business perspective rather unlikely.

Also I will buy an iphone 15 if it has USB C and will wait another year if not.

* The 2016 "Macbook" used a nonstandard power profile but PD was updated shortly after that and subsequent Apple hardware has been strictly compliant. In fact going back to the iMac, the original mass market USB device, Apple's USB implementations have been very strictly compliant with that one notable exception.

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