Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X) • Hacker News Board

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#121

Post by nick_urban » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:46 PM UTC

mrich wrote: post #89

Regarding hardware quality: "...why there's no PC manufacturers that would have the same overall quality of the hardware." In my experience, business ThinkPads beat MacBooks by a mile for working (e.g. programming). I am surprised to see so many coders use MacBooks. Thinkpads have better ergonomics, are more robust and better performance/configurable hardware (e.g. RAM).

I can think of a few reasons:

1) MacBooks are pleasing to the eye. ThinkPads are well-designed functionally but ugly. Aesthetics don't matter to everyone, but to those for whom they do matter, they are not a frivolous concern. Working in an elegant environment (including hardware) can have a positive effect on one's state of mind.

2) A lot of people are interested in developing iOS apps. This is much easier on a Mac.

3) MacBooks are status items like designer clothing and may make people feel more attractive / successful. Obviously this is not universal but neither do I think it's a negligible effect.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#122

Post by sirn » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:50 PM UTC

>There are at least four different ways of installing software on OS X. Download a DMG image, drag the icon from there to Applications folder, run an installer, install stuff from Mac App Store or compile it yourself. There seems to be no standard way how to do this properly. Of course, being a software dev, I ended up using the last alternative a lot.

It sounds to me like the author expects OS X to be like Linux where its UNIX underlying is the centre point of the OS. That's true to some extend, however OS X abstracts a lot away so the user don't ever necessary to have touch the UNIX part of the package. Once you understands it that way, the way of "installing" software on OS X is reduced to 2 (plus 1) for most people.

One is drag and drop an icon into somewhere in your hard drive; which is not even "installing" since what you do is simply... copy it to your local disk. Installing applications via Mac App Store simply automates this (the plus 1 part). Another one is via PKG installer; if any app does this you should be alarmed that they're modifying your system, they're going to scattered files across your system, uninstalling this thing going to be nightmare, etc.

Once you stepped into UNIX land, you're on your own. It would be nice if Apple provide a central repository of packages, but then I have to worry about outdated packages (given the nature of Apple that avoid anything with GPL/GPLv3). Homebrew has already done a great job covering that.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#123

Post by super_mario » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:50 PM UTC

I really can't understand bitching about memory in this day and age. First thing I do when getting a new machine is to max out the RAM. My Mac Pro has had 32 GB since 2008, iMac all have 16 GB and Macbooks 8 GB. It's such a cheap thing to do and it improves your daily life so much, it's essentially free in the end.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#124

Post by ricky_rozay » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

saulrh wrote: post #21

i386 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

LiPo batteries explode if you short them. Doesn't even need to be a very long short, or a very big one. They are incredibly sensitive to fast discharges. Water easily conducts well enough to cause problems, especially if it messes up another power conduit. It isn't guaranteed to catch fire, but the risk is certainly there, especially in such a thin form factor - you don't have much space in there for containment or f…

Id believe it just based on the ridiculous Amount of heat the mac laptops seem to generate. Im constantly turning mine off to cool down

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#125

Post by bwarp » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:52 PM UTC

meepmorp wrote: post #76

bwarp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you. You must have been a lucky one.

Ive spilled - in separate instances - water, coffee, and baby formula into my MBP keyboard, and had no problems, except with the formula, which made the keys sticky. So presumably I'm so lucky I ought to be winning the lottery at least once a week.

Google for "macbook fire" and look at Google images for some other unlucky ones.

Yes you are lucky because you spilled from the top which it's obviously at least slightly better at handling. If the base gets even slightly wet, boom.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#126

Post by cs702 » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:53 PM UTC

I agree with the author: Apple has by far the best hardware in the PC business -- here's a great example of the extremes they go to in order to manufacture superior machines: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/apples-supplychain-secr...

Alas, Apple's #1 target user is not the developer; it's Aunt Tillie. And this shows in the choices they make for OS X.

IMO Linux distributions have vastly superior software installation and management tools because they had to evolve them in order to survive and thrive in the wilds of the Internet. There has never been an 'Apple Store' with a 'Genius Bar', so to speak, for Linux users.

I agree with the author that Debian and its derivatives, like Ubuntu, have perhaps the best software-management tool on earth: apt-get. The damn thing is fast, and in my experience never breaks anything -- the system is always kept in a consistent state. (My experience with other software management tools -- particularly RedHat's yum -- has been less than 100% trouble-free.)

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#127

Post by thenduks » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:53 PM UTC

mrich wrote: post #89

Regarding hardware quality: "...why there's no PC manufacturers that would have the same overall quality of the hardware." In my experience, business ThinkPads beat MacBooks by a mile for working (e.g. programming). I am surprised to see so many coders use MacBooks. Thinkpads have better ergonomics, are more robust and better performance/configurable hardware (e.g. RAM).

Honestly, contrary to this article, I think you'd find that most developers using Macs use them more for the OS than for the hardware.

If I could build a seriously beefy desktop machine and run OSX properly on it, I would. For laptops the nice hardware (as others have said, especially the trackpad, but there are plenty of other reasons) is a definite plus, but OSX is just great.

Wanting some specific hardware for a desktop machine recently (I was actually in a similar position to the author, it seems, I wanted to run basic stuff + dev tools + a lot of VMs) I spec'd and built a Ubuntu box. I lasted for about 8 months being annoyed and decided to use the box as the VM host and a Macbook Air to access them.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#128

Post by adsr » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 1:56 PM UTC

4ad wrote: post #44

What an uninformed rant. When someone rants about memory usage it is usually a sign he knows nothing what he is talking about. On virtual memory systems with on-demand paging that use shared libraries and where all file system I/O is mmap(2) based, memory is managed in a very different way than what most people expect. It's understandable, most people don't know and don't have to know what virtual memory is, even if…

I agree with this, what is left is one guys opinion, which makes it to hacker news front page. Next up: vim vs emacs.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#129

Post by freehunter » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 2:02 PM UTC

sirn wrote: post #112

mrich wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trackpads are good (I mainly use the keyboard so I prefer the smaller ones over Apple's, because the keys are reachable more easily) What is it you don't like? (I'm judging the T510, T60 was also ok)

Too small (I have fat fingers) and low sensitivity compared to the one in PowerBook (back then). This is from a company-issued laptop four or five years ago, however, I don't know if it has seen any improvements over the past years. (Especially the "too small" part.)

I've got some stubby little fingers, so much that my guitar coach in high school told me I should quit and become a bassist (a few years later I invited him to a show so he could eat his words). I use a T61 and I love the tiny trackpad. Granted I use a trackball with it, but on my home laptop with a giant touchpad, I have to move my hand to get all the way across. On the T61, I just move my finger. It feels more precise, I think. I feel like a surgeon with a scalpel.

Granted, this is just my opinion, and when I put it down into words I realize how ridiculous it sounds. But I still prefer it.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#130

Post by yabai » Mon, Feb 13, 2012, 2:06 PM UTC

TamDenholm wrote: post #88

Just out of interest, does anyone know what linux distro has the best Macbook Pro support? Like the author has said, I've always admired the hardware but want to use linux, ideally a debian based one.

All of them support the Macbook.

A better question might be which community has the best documentation. I believe Ubuntu probably has the best documentation for the Macbook and is the most noob friendly.