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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#581

Post by droopyEyelids »

philistine wrote: post #342
ad133 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the strongest pushbacks against USB-C that Apple have: USB-C: You break the stem, you have a useless device and functioning cable Lightning: You break the stem, you have a functioning device and useless cable. One of these is clearly more optimal considering the cost difference between the two. Anecdotally, I have had problems with USB-C ports that I did not have with Micro-USB and (so far) with Lightn…

You forgot the springs. Lighting has the springs in the device, while USB-C has them on the cable. That is why Apple stopped improving Lighting and developed USB-C. The stem can break, but it is far more rare than a tired spring, which is an inevitability.

The lightning connector standard specifies it must survive through 20k plug/unplug cycles, the USB-C standard 10k.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#582

Post by blep-arsh »

crote wrote: post #260
willis936 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned about an interesting corner case last week: devices that use USB-C physical connectors but have USB 2.0 PHY. You can get away with a much longer cable at that lower Baud rate, but that cable likely won't work for most USB-C devices.

Some manufacturers have even introduced charging-only cables which don't even have the USB 2.0 wires. This isn't allowed by the specs, but that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone.

I think it is allowed. The PD spec mentions requirements for charging-only cables, these can actually be certified, if I understand correctly. I also think it's not necessarily a bad thing since it minimizes the risk of 20 volts short circuiting into D+/D- lines of a sufficiently abused cable.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#583

Post by blowski »

revelio wrote: post #513
aetherson wrote: post #477

I think Apple should just make USB-C the norm for iPhones. But the idea that a trans-national government over 750M people should be trying to regulate in this level of detail is just obviously a recipe for disaster. For every one time they successfully push a company to do something correct -- but ultimately trivial, like this thing -- there are going to be 10 cases where some bureaucrat makes a bad decision and they…

[flagged]

I was going to eat salad this evening, but since I ate pizza for dinner last week, I realised there’s no point in me eating healthily tonight.

Of course the EU can make bad decisions in one area without precluding them making good ones in others.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#584

Post by scarface74 »

sitkack wrote: post #441
scarface74 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that FireWire was a Sony standard right?

Looks like it was lead by Apple with considerable input by Sony. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394

And there are 10 different patent holders according to the article and Sony had the most

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#585

Post by wskinner »

heliostatic wrote: post #570
wskinner wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the standards are so good, they shouldn’t need to force companies to use them.

I believe we have found the economist. What's the electrical failure rate of every appliance in your home, and the associated risk of death by electrocution? If you don't know offhand, it might be that you are implicitly relying on UL standards to keep you safe and whole. Consumers don't have perfect information, so the risk is asymmetric. If you assume the market will sort out risk and quality so we don't need stand…

Many responses to my comment made the same argument, so I’ll just reply here.

What do you see as the main safety differences between Lightning and USB-C? As both systems have been in use at scale for some time now, this should be easy enough to answer quantitatively.

My understanding is that they offer equivalent safety, in spite of Lightning not having been standardized by the EU, but I may be wrong.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#586

Post by howinteresting »

crazygringo wrote: post #556
gtirloni wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All laws have corner cases that are not covered. All laws. If laws were to cover every imaginable situation, they would be huge. Some already are... you have a whole bureaucracy working to understand them. That's why you often hear about the "spirit of the law" where humans know pretty well what the legislator is trying to accomplish, even though it's not fully codified in subsequent rules.

This is simply not true. Laws can be written exceptionally clearly, and very often are. And the "spirit of the law" is a fallacy, which your sentence exposes when you write: > "the legislator is trying to accomplish" Because yes, there is absolutely intent with a single legislator. But there is no such thing as intent or spirit for a legislature (or committee). A legislature can pass a law, say 51 to 49, where every…

Your position is one of many.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#587

Post by wskinner »

sneakerblack wrote: post #572
wskinner wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the standards are so good, they shouldn’t need to force companies to use them.

This is not how incentives work. Companies can and have creates inferior and dangerous products for the sake of profits. See the Phoebus cartel and the BMW emission scandal.

And what about the case of Lightning and USB-C? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35853766

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#588

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

krzyk wrote: post #474
crazygringo wrote: post #402

I'm confused. Either Apple is following the letter of the law or it isn't. I don't know what a "warning" from EU Industry Commissioner Thierry Breton is supposed to mean. Either the law says USB-C charging is required but doesn't say anything about charging speeds, or it does say something about charging speeds. In any case, Apple has a lot of lawyers and presumably they're following the law as written . I would assu…

The warning is "don't fool around", just provide usb-c without any conditions, don't make "better" and worse cables just because one has to pay the funny MFI.

Is that what the law requires? If so then the “warning” is superfluous. If not then it’s an empty threat made for PR purposes.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#589

Post by sbuk »

red_trumpet wrote: post #215
viktorcode wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple devices do exactly the same, and has been for many years. I charge my stuff with a third party chargers, all I need is a lightning cable.

That's the point, you need an additional cable. I charge most of my stuff with my laptop cable: laptop, Smartphone, Ebook reader, portable speaker. Only my headphones are still in MicroUSB. As the laptop cable doesn't have an outgoing USB A/C port, I would have to carry an additional cable and charger if I had an iPhone.

> That's the point, you need an additional cable.

The humanity!

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#590

Post by jdiez17 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #528
Moldoteck wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, there is a word, called standard and govs sometimes mandate those standards to help consumers...

I'm all for standards bodies. But government should not force anybody to follow a particular one. It's not like apple is advertising USB C and not delivering it. If lightning is so inferior to USB C, consumers will vote with their money and iPhones will either die out or apple will start offering it with USB C. The fact is that it hardly matters. This is a non issue for most users. But due to some bureaucrats who hav…

It's not possible for consumers to signal that they would prefer an iPhone with a USB-C port instead of Lightning.
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