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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

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Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#81

Post by lloeki »

CJefferson wrote: post #65
lloeki wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You could also create some wrapper scripts setting the path, or have someting inspired by virtualenv handle it, or maybe different terminal profiles. Those breakings really are edge cases. 2) Don't put them in the PATH. They're prefixed with 'g' so you can make an non-prefixed alias for your interactive shell, and use the prefixed variant in your scripts if need be. If you write portable scripts you're either usin…

1) Well, I could do I suppose. That all sounds a bit complicated however. 2) I am not talking about my own scripts, I am talking about other peoples. I could obviously go through and debug them, and then check I haven't broken them on a couple of linuxes, and a mac without macports/homebrew but... I don't want to. 3) You are right, it looks like gcc and gdb have both been taken out of homebrew, I assume because they…

2) I am not talking about my own scripts, I am talking about other peoples. I could obviously go through and debug them, and then check I haven't broken them on a couple of linuxes, and a mac without macports/homebrew but... I don't want to.

Which is why the alias solution is nice, as it will only impact the interactive shell, not the scripts.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#82

Post by Craiggybear »

Interesting. I am using OS X 10.5.8 with only 2G memory and when programming with Python, PHP, gcc and Apache this is actually OK. Not brilliant, but not slow either. The machine tends to be on all day. I have noticed that Linux does seem to page more than it used to in recent years, this varies with the kernel. There is more Linux disk activity these days than in previous versions, regardless of what swappiness I tell it to use.

I use nano or vim as my editor mainly. The setup I use on Linux is much the same. I don't notice much of a difference in terms of performance between OS X or Linux for the text-based and command-line related stuff that I do. I could sit down and be happy in either OS X or Linux and it wouldn't matter to me which one I'm using. I also use mutt for my email and cmus for playing music in both environments so I am seldom out of the command line for anything.

Although I do find apt-get much more efficient and I can get packages faster and with less fuss with Linux.

I do also use brew on OS X.

As far as I'm concerned, for what I do, there isn't a lot of difference ... I hardly ever use XCode, though.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#83

Post by bwarp »

myspy wrote: post #75
bwarp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No hyperbole. The design is simply dangerous. One glass of water on the desk (not in the machine!). Capillary action sucked water around the seal on the base. It was turned over to remove the battery and the sucked up water rained on the logic board resulting in all sorts of crackling, smoke etc and one dead MacBook. Being a qualified and experienced EE, I'm qualified to say that it's electronics 101 to be able to is…

The keyboard and speaker holes are sealed with some kind of rubber plate, which is glued on the case. Therefore it takes some time for liquids to enter the casing. When turning the MB directly upside down, there should happen nothing. But as always, you shouldn't place your drinks directly to all kind of electronic stuff. It's common sense.

I agree there - the real issue is the spill.

However, there is no excuse not to design something with safety in mind.

If you look at the base, the edge rim of it is where it seeped in and sat in the curved section like a pool when oriented normally. There was at least 10ml of water which had been sucked off the table via that rim. The logical step is "isolate power". Any movement of the device resulted in the water spilling onto the logic board.

Pictures: http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing-MacBook-Pro-13-Inch-U...

Now TBH I've personally done this with an acer timeline. I yanked the battery out in 5 seconds flat and hung it up to dry. It was fine the next day.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#84

Post by jrminter »

I must be missing something. Why waste 10 min running purge and repair disk permissions to retrieve memory when a restart is much faster???

I abandoned MacPorts for Homebrew. One feature I like is that I can build any package I want (that doesn't have a formula) with './configure --prefix=/usr/local/Cellar/name/version-no' and then do a 'brew link name' to make all the symbolic links or 'brew unlink name' to remove them. Helps solve annoying problems.

My main grump with MacOSX (still on Snow Leopard) compared to Linux is issues with 64 bit Python and MacOSX seems to store files all over the disk. Basically, if you want to work differently from the Steve Jobs Way, it takes a LOT of work. Couldn't agree more about the superior hardware quality.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#85

Post by berntb »

simonh wrote: post #71

My first reaction was "Linux developer prefers developing Linux software on Linux - News at 11". However, I suppose there is more to it than that. The issue is that the fact OSX is Unix under the hood is merely an implementation detail and always has been. I'd much prefer it if Apple used a solid, up to date Linux distro under the hood, but they don't. To me using the Unix system in OSX feels a bit like using Cygwin…

I got a Linux portable this early autumn instead of a new Mac, mostly to get apt.

It is a Latitude, so it isn't that bad (~ cheap Thinkpad), but it can't really hold a candle to a real Mac. Sigh, I wish I'd made your choice and gone Mac again with Ubuntu/Debian (VM or not).

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#86

Post by lloeki »

bad_user wrote: post #59
lloeki wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You could also create some wrapper scripts setting the path, or have someting inspired by virtualenv handle it, or maybe different terminal profiles. Those breakings really are edge cases. 2) Don't put them in the PATH. They're prefixed with 'g' so you can make an non-prefixed alias for your interactive shell, and use the prefixed variant in your scripts if need be. If you write portable scripts you're either usin…

3) g++? that's not in homebrew... He probably meant GCC, which does have recipes in Homebrew. Homebrew started taking off, and in my case Just Works This is the first time I ever heard anyone saying it. In general Homebrew did a good job for me, but it did break on me a couple of times. And when it did, fixing it caused me a lot of stress, because in the end it's really not much better than " ./configure && make && s…

You could always try to revive the Arch OS X project (it was 100% functionally working end-to-end) if you want, but it failed in favor of Homebrew for a reason: no one seems to want to assume the cost (both in time and money) of the binary side of things (hosting, building distributable packages, uploading, etc...).

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#87

Post by lrvick »

gaius wrote: post #55
lrvick wrote: post #39

This is fairly spot on. Apple makes really nice laptop/desktop hardware, but though OSX as been getting a lot better, it is still a terrible playschool excuse for a unix-based operating systems go when compared to *BSD or Linux. OSX is certainly a better choice for the pointy-pointy-clicky-clicky masses than windows by far, but we have chromeos and ubuntu for them now. Lets face it, OSX is made to suit the needs of p…

serious hackers or sysadmins that actually care how things work at a low level, like to choose their own window manager I think your definitions of "serious" and "low level" may differ from mine.

I think you are misreading me. You can be a serious hacker that uses OSX.

Allow me to add some contrast.

I have seen lots of fantastic things developed on OSX exclusively. They still typically deploy on Linux servers, but I digress. What you /can't/ do on OSX is seriously care about many of the items I listed. That _should_ read if you are "A" a serious hacker and "B" you also care about things like these, then Linux is the only sane choice. For someone that only deals in working in the confines of existing frameworks, scripting languages, etc, then sure OSX+xcode will let you get done what you need. If however your project needs require you to have control lower than the OSX binary systems can presently offer, you hit a closed source brick wall. If something breaks, your at the mercy of a third party to fix it.

It has some of the same problems in that respect as Windows.

When I get a piece of hardware that does not work, I can go to the kernel source, and patch it myself, and contribute it to the Linux kernel. In fact, I have. If something does not work how you expect on OSX however, file a bug report and hope for the best. Even if you have the skills to fix the problem, your hands are tied.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#89

Post by mrich »

Regarding hardware quality:

  "...why there's no PC manufacturers that would
  have the same overall quality of the hardware."
In my experience, business ThinkPads beat MacBooks by a mile for working (e.g. programming). I am surprised to see so many coders use MacBooks. Thinkpads have better ergonomics, are more robust and better performance/configurable hardware (e.g. RAM).

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#90

Post by jyrki »

lwhi wrote: post #43

I was considering going the other way - but after reading this, maybe I'll stick where I am. -- One thing that does seem a bit odd: > "I'm a long time Ubuntu user, but this time I decided to go with Debian. Why? Mostly because our servers are Debian and because latest updates of Ubuntu have mostly focused on breaking the desktop environment." vs. > "Do I miss something? Sure. Even though Linux in modern times mostly…

> I'm a bit sick of hearing this meme perpetuated. Give Unity a chance ... in fact, the author's main gripe about Debian is resolved in a really fluid way by Ubuntu + Unity. I think Unity's multi-monitor support is one reason why it's worth sticking with.

I've used Unity on my desktop for a six months or so, but I just wasn't compatible with it.

The display issue is more of an issue of drivers or something similiar: The issue I'm having with my DP-connected 30" Dell is that I can't make it being sole display without first disabling laptop's internal screen with xrandr. If I keep my laptop display on, the screen works as a mirror or secondary screen just fine.

Now this might work in Unity, but unfortunately I've got no way of testing it.

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