I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#211

Post by 9991 » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

eastbound wrote: post #202

thayne wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow software people have forgotten that physical things last a long time, and people want them to keep working and stay the same as long as possible Maybe a little. But I think a big part of it is businesses realizing they can make a lot more money, at least in the short term, if people have to replace their products more often.

After maintaining online services, I’m quite sure it’s vulnerabilities. It’s extremely costly after 3-5 years to maintain old software. Ex: You have a thermostat or an alarm system that runs Debian, Debian gets a vulnerability, you try to upgrade it, but you need to change Debian versions, and your old stack isn’t supported on the newer version. Nowadays you need to keep patching all your old appliances, keep the old…

Perhaps it's too radical, but if this is the main concern, you could still build appliances with Linux that just aren't networked. Take a page out of Battlestar Galactica's playbook.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#212

Post by the_snooze » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

cabalamat wrote: post #208

titzer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to replacing my furnace I had a mercury thermostat that was easily over 50 years old. The new one is digital but isn't "smart". I don't expect 50 years, but 20-30 seems reasonable. Somehow software people have forgotten that physical things last a long time, and people want them to keep working and stay the same as long as possible . My thermostat doesn't need "upgrades", and anyone who thinks they are going to…

> The new one is digital but isn't "smart". I do not, nor will I ever use, any "smart" device. "Smart" devices are - unnecessarily complicated - privacy destroying - overpriced - vendor lock-in - often infected with online ads you can't get rid of - likely to stop working if the vendor goes bust, their business model changes, or they just feel like it IMO, it is rarely or never a smart decision to get a "smart" devic…

The people who design those things have the exact mindset of an abusive partner:

- I want to know everything about you and who you talk to

- I will control and change things without your say-so

- You can't leave me easily

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#213

Post by SoftTalker » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #59

largepeepee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's not only products that get left behind once Google gets bored. Many of Google's software eventually get worse too. YouTube for example has killed most of their social features by removing dislikes, limited searchability of videos by channel, allowed bots to fill the comments. And Google search has so much malware in their ads that pop up first, that even govts are recommending ad blockers by default.…

I had to delete the YouTube app simply because there was no way to disable Shorts. Those things are hopelessly addictive and unavoidable. If I wanted shorts, I'd install TikTok.

I'm annoyed by the inability to hide shorts but I don't really find them addictive. I've watched a few, determined they were as useless as they appeared, and just ignore them. But it's annoying the amount of space they take up, it's a good third of the screen on my phone.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#214

Post by Larrikin » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

riemannzeta wrote: post #205

The ultimate question for consumers though is this: Are you better off in the Apple ecosystem? As bad as things are with Google, the answer is probably no. But not many have the time, tools, and training to be independent of either.

You are not better off in one walled garden over the other. With greedy corporations in the US pushing subscriptions for products that get discontinued and China spinning up cheap crap companies everyday, there is zero reason to invest in anything IoT in your home that is not fully open sourced or completely cracked.

Currently the best indicator is checking Home assistant's or ESPHome's integrations. I'm a little worried that they are guided by one company, Nabu Casa, but atleast the product is open source so the community can take over if they pull an OpenAI and completely reverse. They cater to a very combative group of customers that will absolutely take over the product if they get greedy.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#215

Post by Larrikin » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

riskable wrote: post #155

linsomniac wrote: post #144

My primary use of the Home speakers is playing music in the shower. That experience is actually pretty bad though, over the years between google music and spotify, getting it to play my music is just horribly obtuse. I can't reliably get it to start my music. "Playing a playlist called my favorites" or similar rather than playing my own playlist. At one point after 3-4 failed attempts like this I said "F you" and the…

I never understood why people put smart speakers in their showers. Why is a simple and cheap Bluetooth speaker not good enough? You can get them in any size and shape and sound quality and they (can) work with your phone's built-in "smart" assistant. I never use that though because when I'm in the shower all I want to do is listen to music. Here's my routine, for reference: 1. Turn on the speaker (which is hanging on…

I think it is mostly iOS people that are not used to waterproof phones. Many top quality Android phones have been water resistant for years. My first one was the Sony Xperia Z1 released a decade ago.

So, controlling a speaker from your phone in the shower is an obvious solution versus trying to talk to it.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#216

Post by stirlo » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

riskable wrote: post #155

linsomniac wrote: post #144

My primary use of the Home speakers is playing music in the shower. That experience is actually pretty bad though, over the years between google music and spotify, getting it to play my music is just horribly obtuse. I can't reliably get it to start my music. "Playing a playlist called my favorites" or similar rather than playing my own playlist. At one point after 3-4 failed attempts like this I said "F you" and the…

I never understood why people put smart speakers in their showers. Why is a simple and cheap Bluetooth speaker not good enough? You can get them in any size and shape and sound quality and they (can) work with your phone's built-in "smart" assistant. I never use that though because when I'm in the shower all I want to do is listen to music. Here's my routine, for reference: 1. Turn on the speaker (which is hanging on…

Thats still more steps than just walking in and yelling out "Hey Google, play my music"

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#217

Post by gumby » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

FTA:

> “Google’s directionless approach”

This phrase has applied to all parts of google since the departure of Schmidt.

I used to think it was a shame, but eventually realized we’ve been lucky.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#218

Post by stirlo » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #215

riskable wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why people put smart speakers in their showers. Why is a simple and cheap Bluetooth speaker not good enough? You can get them in any size and shape and sound quality and they (can) work with your phone's built-in "smart" assistant. I never use that though because when I'm in the shower all I want to do is listen to music. Here's my routine, for reference: 1. Turn on the speaker (which is hanging on…

I think it is mostly iOS people that are not used to waterproof phones. Many top quality Android phones have been water resistant for years. My first one was the Sony Xperia Z1 released a decade ago. So, controlling a speaker from your phone in the shower is an obvious solution versus trying to talk to it.

While nearly all phones (including iPhones) have been waterproof for almost decade now that does not solve the issue with capacitive touch screens not working when wet, where to put the phone where it won't slip and break on the tiles, and the terrible quality of phone speakers in general. And then you have a wet slippery phone to put in your pocket (plus probably water trapped behind whatever case you have on it).

Or just pay a small amount for a dedicated speaker with handsfree voice controls...

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#219

Post by brookst » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #152

Corrado wrote: post #2

I feel like this is just one more thing that Google leadership is failing at. I have some similar examples to the ones in the article. I recommended that my brother-in-law get a Google wifi AP some years ago. Recently, I got an email from Google saying that they are no longer supporting it and after a certain date you will no longer be able to make changes to it. WTF?!? My Apple Airport Extreme is older than the Goog…

Prior to replacing my furnace I had a mercury thermostat that was easily over 50 years old. The new one is digital but isn't "smart". I don't expect 50 years, but 20-30 seems reasonable. Somehow software people have forgotten that physical things last a long time, and people want them to keep working and stay the same as long as possible . My thermostat doesn't need "upgrades", and anyone who thinks they are going to…

> physical things last a long time

There's a lot of survivor bias here. I have had plenty of dumb physical things fail in what seems like unreasonably short times.

But I do have done physical dumb devices that are 100+ years old. I do not interpret that to mean that everything from that era / factory / manufacturer lasts 100 years, just that all of the surviving items did.

Re: I'm never investing in Google's smart home ecosystem again

#220

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Sun, May 07, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #181

titzer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to replacing my furnace I had a mercury thermostat that was easily over 50 years old. The new one is digital but isn't "smart". I don't expect 50 years, but 20-30 seems reasonable. Somehow software people have forgotten that physical things last a long time, and people want them to keep working and stay the same as long as possible . My thermostat doesn't need "upgrades", and anyone who thinks they are going to…

> Somehow software people have forgotten that physical things last a long time, and people want them to keep working and stay the same as long as possible Maybe a little. But I think a big part of it is businesses realizing they can make a lot more money, at least in the short term, if people have to replace their products more often.

I call it, "collective post nut clarity". The tech looks nice at CES but the users are waking up to the fact they now need to swap their mirror, thermostat, door locks, etc. every few years. Smart LED bulbs are ironic in that LED bulbs were supposed to be so efficient they would save the planet and now people regularly throw them in the garbage for "smart" features. Everything is a con.