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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

dywypi.org

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Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#71
My first reaction was "Linux developer prefers developing Linux software on Linux - News at 11".

However, I suppose there is more to it than that. The issue is that the fact OSX is Unix under the hood is merely an implementation detail and always has been. I'd much prefer it if Apple used a solid, up to date Linux distro under the hood, but they don't. To me using the Unix system in OSX feels a bit like using Cygwin on Windows.

Conversely with modern virtualisation software, you can have your cake and eat it. I use OSX to run desktop and media apps, at which it excels, and have Linux and Windows 7 running in VMs. Perhaps not good enough if you're doing resource intensive stuff like heavy duty compiles on your Linux system, but for my purposes it works very well. It has the added advantage that if I hack around with the VMs and something goes wrong, I can usually revert to a recent VM checkpoint.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3) g++? that's not in homebrew... He probably meant GCC, which does have recipes in Homebrew. Homebrew started taking off, and in my case Just Works This is the first time I ever heard anyone saying it. In general Homebrew did a good job for me, but it did break on me a couple of times. And when it did, fixing it caused me a lot of stress, because in the end it's really not much better than " ./configure && make && s…

If you are attached to binary packages, there's always fink which might even predate Macports. Unfortunately, building the packages and then keeping them current takes quite a bit of infrastructure which is why fink's binary packages are really outdated at times. The other issue is with runtime-dependencies: Self-compiling packages gives you the freedom to, say, build vim without X11 support. With binary packages, th…

That being said, if debian can do it for around 30,000 packages on almost as many architectures as OSX has mere hardware models, why can't OSX do it? With all the app stores and cloud services, Apple is big on 'quite a bit of infrastructure'.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#74
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

No hyperbole. The design is simply dangerous. One glass of water on the desk (not in the machine!). Capillary action sucked water around the seal on the base. It was turned over to remove the battery and the sucked up water rained on the logic board resulting in all sorts of crackling, smoke etc and one dead MacBook. Being a qualified and experienced EE, I'm qualified to say that it's electronics 101 to be able to is…

Your knowledge may be obscuring the bigger picture here. I suspect the general public wouldn't behave the way you would - the only spill I've ever seen resulted in the user turning the machine over and furiously shaking it. That this is the only spill I've seen in 16 odd years of being around laptops and using laptops suggests to me that for a company like Apple optimising for spills wouldn't be a priority.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#75
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

No hyperbole. The design is simply dangerous. One glass of water on the desk (not in the machine!). Capillary action sucked water around the seal on the base. It was turned over to remove the battery and the sucked up water rained on the logic board resulting in all sorts of crackling, smoke etc and one dead MacBook. Being a qualified and experienced EE, I'm qualified to say that it's electronics 101 to be able to is…

The keyboard and speaker holes are sealed with some kind of rubber plate, which is glued on the case. Therefore it takes some time for liquids to enter the casing. When turning the MB directly upside down, there should happen nothing.

But as always, you shouldn't place your drinks directly to all kind of electronic stuff. It's common sense.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#76
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I had a large glass of wine spilled all over my macbook with no long-term ill effects after the drying period.

Good for you. You must have been a lucky one.

Ive spilled - in separate instances - water, coffee, and baby formula into my MBP keyboard, and had no problems, except with the formula, which made the keys sticky.

So presumably I'm so lucky I ought to be winning the lottery at least once a week.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#78
post #39

This is fairly spot on. Apple makes really nice laptop/desktop hardware, but though OSX as been getting a lot better, it is still a terrible playschool excuse for a unix-based operating systems go when compared to *BSD or Linux. OSX is certainly a better choice for the pointy-pointy-clicky-clicky masses than windows by far, but we have chromeos and ubuntu for them now. Lets face it, OSX is made to suit the needs of p…

> OSX is certainly a better choice for the pointy-pointy-clicky-clicky masses than windows by far. OSX is not, nor will it ever likely be made for serious hackers or sysadmins that actually care how things work at a low level

This is an extremely short-sighted, elitist point of view. Stuff like DTrace are absolutely fantastic and quite low-level, and applications like Instruments are quite helpful.

> like to

> choose their own window manager

Hmm that's 'low level' for sure.

> manage memory

OS memory management is incredibly tough. J. Random Hacker certainly has a hard time following LKML discussions on the subject, let alone diving into the code. echo'ing stuff in /proc/sys/vm/swappiness does not count as hackerdom on the subject.

> write/apply kernel patches to support new hardware

Nothing prevents you from writing kexts.

> run enterprise-level systems with rebootless kernel upgrades

I doubt the majority of linux servers are running Ksplice or kexec'ing into the new kernel. Your typical Debian install needs a reboot for the new kernel to be picked up.

> have low level file-system control/choices

I think HFS+ has done its time and needs to be phased out, and I would have loved for ZFS to not be acquired by Oracle. Still you can control journaled-ness and case sensitivity of HFS+ drives, which is nice. You can come up with whatever partition scheme you want since /etc/fstab is respected. Also, you can certainly implement/port all the filesystems you want, either 'natively' or through Fuse.

> get and apply same-day security patches

This is an area where the open crowd kicks ass. Many vulnerabilities though are not in the kernel or the base OS but in third party software, which can possibly run nicely on OSX and benefit from openness.

> have custom kernel-level security extensions that compile into every binary on the system

I'm not sure what you mean by that but if you have kernel security compiled in a userland program to be effective, you've got a problem.

> It is also certainly not for the wider range of users and developers that want an operating system they can install on their existing hardware that for most common tasks "just works"

This is true but ironically, I recently built a hackintosh on a Dell XPS 8300 which required much fewer hacks than Ubuntu to simply work. (Debian did not stand a chance as it would have been running half of Sid). Arch Linux fares better but needed quite some work to achieve a fully working environment. Yet in the end OS X is still a better fit for the machine.

> and/or want to easily manage all the software on their system with a mostly unbiased package repository system where everything is free, and where most of it can be legally modified.

Homebrew fits the bill. Also note how most of the Unix userland and a good part of the kernel is actually open [0].

So I assure you hackers can have plenty of fun poking around and living daily inside OS X.

[0] 10.7.3 kernel, http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.23/

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#79
post #57

After two decades of Unix use, in 2000 I switched to Apple and OSX - the only reason I considered it was because of the design of the Titanium Powerbook, which I saw in those days as an amazing piece of hardware design, which - amazingly - gave me a Unix workstation in a fantastic portable package. I simply couldn't believe that Apple, of all people, were delivering what I'd wanted for years - a smart, functional, fu…

Did you find a way to get a second mouse button? I saw several howtos that said that a keyboard key could be mapped to it but none worked for me last time I tried (four years ago?)

I used to use Ubuntu on a Macbook, and it was pretty easy to map two-finger-tap to right-click and three-finger-tap to middle-click. I guess if you're the kind of person that hates tap-to-click and prefers hardware buttons, that's not so useful, but I had no problems using it.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#80
post #23

Inactive memory is not an OS X specific, and it's actually implemented in a number of other OSes, including FreeBSD. > when it's on disk, it definitely is not made active quickly. If an application is unloaded then many operations need to be taken to initialize stuff, reading the disk for various stuff, processing some data, allocating memory (which will be zeored out, then initialized with whatever struct and data t…

I feel you are being unfair about the uninformed rant. Picking at a couple of things I know about: 1) I've tried installing both Macports and homebrew, and some utils did not work, as whichever got put in the path first, confused the other. I suppose I could have made a seperate symlink directory, for just the binaries I wanted. 2) I found 'brew install coreutils' broke some build scripts , which expected proper mac…

Any advice on how to acheive this?

I have a slight edge-case, where I would like to install Debian Mint onto a 32GB flash drive, and boot from that. I have a Macbook Air and disk space is at a premium.

Googling around has been to no avail.

If it's possible (though absolutely not necessary) – my OSX and Debian files could be shared when booted into either – that would be great!

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