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The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

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Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#11

Post by mastax »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #4
lloydatkinson wrote: post #2

Sounds like the author is majorly suffering with analysis paralysis, something that’s quite relatable. Still, I can’t say I’ve suffered it to the extent I’d rather be stuck debugging spaghetti projects.

ever completed a project to find out 6+ months later that it was never used, for reasons? working on an existing mess with outstanding complaints at least better guarantees that it is a valued mess. some environments, that’s not about comfort, it is about survival.

My dad spent the first 12 years of his career working on the Advanced Gun System for the DDG1000 destroyer program. Never got used.

I can understand why he has such a disdain for government waste.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#12

Post by sanitycheck »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #4
lloydatkinson wrote: post #2

Sounds like the author is majorly suffering with analysis paralysis, something that’s quite relatable. Still, I can’t say I’ve suffered it to the extent I’d rather be stuck debugging spaghetti projects.

ever completed a project to find out 6+ months later that it was never used, for reasons? working on an existing mess with outstanding complaints at least better guarantees that it is a valued mess. some environments, that’s not about comfort, it is about survival.

Most of what we do is pretty useless anyway. Does the world really need another online shop, another way to watch movies online, another social network?

I think projects which get cancelled or never released are great. I get to do the fun parts - the design/architecture and solving the hard implementation problems - but not the endless of hours of tweaking, bug fixing, dealing with the inevitable pre-release business pivot which turns the software from a beautiful solution to Problem A into a horrible kludge for Problem B. And I still get paid!

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#13

Post by opmelogy »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #3

there’s nothing wrong with this opinion, attitude, what have you. it is useful. important. not every project gets a clean start. not everyone that starts a project sees it through. my preference is making my own mess and iterating it out of one. decreases the hunt for bodies. but preference doesn’t always equate to reality. also depends on the project. if there’s a delightfully boring industry standard for most needs…

> there’s nothing wrong with this opinion, attitude, what have you. it is useful. important.

This is dead on.

There's a lot of value in knowing where one fits and thrives in the dev process. We need people that thrive building the v1's and we need people that thrive extending the v1's into v2's and beyond. They are both really valuable.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#14

Post by mpetrovich »

My goodness, this describes me perfectly as well. The countless choices of a blank slate brings anxiety to a recovering perfectionist like me. Do I choose A or B or Z?

I prefer improving things rather than creating them from nothing. I’ve come to a similar conclusion as the author as far as how to get out of the fog of greenfield: Satisfice instead of optimize.

In this context, optimizing refers to choosing the best among N options. In contrast, satisficing means choosing the first option that’s good enough. Often, the opportunity cost saved from satisficing is greater than the marginal value gained from optimizing.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#16

Post by JoeAltmaier »

I've worked with a business partner for 20 years. I prototype rapidly; he perfects and makes a sparkling gem of a product. Everybody we know, knows this, hires us because of this.

We've hired others in the past for special skills - building data schemas, graphic designers, problem solvers, debugging and testing. Because there are many skill sets.

I understand the OP very well. We'd all do better by understanding this!

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#17

Post by bob1029 »

I like being right in the middle of this spectrum. I used to be really far into "rewrite", but now I've seen what can be done with proper discipline. We've been able to roll with the same monolith for about 5 years now. The biggest perceived benefit for me is the common ground it provides for the business & our customers. Everyone has been speaking the same language for a really long time now and the benefits of that have accumulated. I've been allowed to forget about code & processes that I helped develop because they became so stable that someone else assumed complete ownership. The last time I personally built our software from source (with intent to publish/deliver to a customer) was circa 2020.

If we were to rewrite this thing from zero with reckless abandon, all of that confidence & trust that built up over half a decade would be lost. We are in the process of investigating alternative architectures, but we are doing it in a way where we minimize how much we have to involve our customers and other team members. Things like "backwards compatible configuration" and "don't change the UI if it works" are headline in our greenfield.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#18

Post by ipaddr »

sanitycheck wrote: post #12
catchnear4321 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ever completed a project to find out 6+ months later that it was never used, for reasons? working on an existing mess with outstanding complaints at least better guarantees that it is a valued mess. some environments, that’s not about comfort, it is about survival.

Most of what we do is pretty useless anyway. Does the world really need another online shop, another way to watch movies online, another social network? I think projects which get cancelled or never released are great. I get to do the fun parts - the design/architecture and solving the hard implementation problems - but not the endless of hours of tweaking, bug fixing, dealing with the inevitable pre-release business…

These are best projects. You get to do the fun part and don't need to support the product. And you get paid.

Re: The Messy Page Or: why I don't like greenfield projects

#20

Post by marklubi »

chefandy wrote: post #5

I get that but I couldn't be more different: I love greenfield projects. I find designing a robust, performant and reliable architecture to be the most interesting part of the process.

I too love greenfield projects. It's so satisfying to build something amazing from scratch.
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