Live data from Hacker News

EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

techradar.com

381–390 of 868 posts

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this! Next up: make "side loading" apps a thing. Do it with these stipulations: 1. Make it easy, part of the normal flow. Not hidden in an obscure panel or behind three or four dialogues. 2. Make it non-scary (no negs from Apple saying you'll destroy your device or safety) 3. Make it so it isn't called something negative like "side loading", but a part of normal user behavior: "download app", "web insta…

Let’s stop using the ‘side loading’ euphemism and just call it ‘loading’. Let us load our own code.

Meh. Android has had sideloading from the start. It's been the common term for not using the blessed app stores for a while, even when it's been allowed since the beginning.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#382
post #158
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU laws don't expand beyond EU. EU consist about 5% of the population, 95% can have whatever they like. Yes, there's Brussels effect but that effect work when the trouble of designing or producing something else is not worth it. Also, you are not banned from engineering other solutions. The police isn't going to knock on the doors of engineers who are suspected to develop better charging cables :)

There are now zero incentives to research and develop better plugs in the EU since it is illegal to market devices sporting them instead of USB-C.

Wtf are you smoking? You can add other ports, the law is about mandating usb-c. If you want thunderlightening port or anything you want besides usbc, like HEADPHONE JACK, you can doo this...

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#383

Do you think Apple intended to stick with Lightning forever? They were just taking their own sweet time. The fact that their other products switched a couple of years ago should make this obvious. Of course the EU will crow when the next iPhone has USB-C worldwide. I doubt this has had a significant impact on Apples internal planning. If any. It seems to me this will be more significant post USB-C and it's much more…

> do you think Apple intended to stick with Lightning forever? What?? Of course they did. Why do you think they are even considering USBC? Apple has zero incentive to use a common cable format; I'm sure they rake in money with their proprietary apple-only connectors. Look at magsafe. Changed it twice so everyone had to get a whole new set of chargers. Sure, they changed it to C now, but I'm guessing that's just becau…

[deleted]

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. There is little/no feedback control hence it will drift down the usual decline of increasingly authoritarian systems. It‘s a shame because of the opportunity costs.

> instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. The way we have let manufacturers compete to create the best standard for power adaptors?

Do you mean the plug in the wall for adapters? Assuming so but please correct me if I’m wrong. :)

Not the hill I’m going to die on, but doesn’t the lack of change kind of prove the point? Is what we have today the absolute best thing we could have? There’s probably room for innovation here. It’s a balance right? Not changing is good but also… it can’t get any better. With consumer electronic devices we’d still be using DVI ports and the red/yellow/white audio video cables had this legislation come into existence only a few years back. Important to remember that.

That being said I think Apple should support USB-C across all devices because it’s just damn good. I was irritated they added the HDMI port back actually. Hopefully they’ll remove it in the future again and just keep USB-C everything.

From what I understand Thunderbolt is actually a pretty good implantation it’s just proprietary for Apple. That’s fine. I also understand Apple’s desire to maintain a minimum level of quality for USB-C cables being plugged into the iPhone. I’m not sure why that’s controversial.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#385
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent has a point, the regulation is forcing a slightly smaller battery, slightly less durable connector, much more expensive repairs when the port stem breaks, etc. For devices that doesn't need the extra capabilities.

People keep repeating this but how frequently do USB C ports actually break? Anecdotally, I had horrendous issues with mini USB but I've never had a micro USB or USB C port break. I'm not particularly gentle with them either, I've had the female end come out of the cable boot/snap off and the cable stop working due to strain on the boot. I don't know anyone who has experienced this personally and I can't recall seein…

> People keep repeating this but how frequently do USB C ports actually break?

Even if the real rate was only 1 in a thousand devices, that's still a serious burden for the unlucky few. Whereas for lightning connectors, it's trivial to dislodge.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#386
post #220
post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

> Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from including both USB-C and another charging connector.

On a handheld device with limited space? Come on now.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#387
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

If the whole world adopted this stance maybe I wouldn’t an overflowing box of useless, obsolete cables. Maybe I wouldn’t need separate chargers and cables for my phone, tablet, ebook reader, and other assorted devices. The amount of waste produced because companies are incentivized to produce incompatible devices like charger cables is staggering. The additional cost burden on users is unnecessary. The theoretical be…

Can you help me understand what you're saying? It comes off as so over the top that I find it absurd, but maybe we just have different backgrounds/experience.

1) Companies are not incentivized to produce incompatible cables, the industry has done a remarkably good job of settling on basically a single standard, so the incentives seem to run counter to what you say. The major hold out introduced their own cable standard 2 years _before_ USB-C even existed, and even they were rumored to be moving to USB-C anyways. (I'm sure people will credit the law with this even if it had nothing to do with it.) Would it have been good if they had switched to USB-C earlier? Sure, but that would mean... people throwing out their old cables that worked perfectly fine.

2.) Would the amount of charging cables you have purchased in your lifetime even fill up one regular-sized (13 gallon-ish) trash bag? I don't know how many charging cables you are buying or what your uses are, but I'm struggling to see how it's a "staggering" amount of waste. I'm a somewhat avid electronic geek, I own multiple Raspberry Pis and other hobbyist electronics. No way would I even come close. When I do buy new cables, 90% of the time it's for reasons like the old ones have worn out, or I have a new device that needs to be permanently plugged in.

~~~Edited to add~~~ All my consumer electronics devices have stopped needing their own charger for years now. I use the same charger and swap out a cord.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#388
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can clean USB-C the same way (I have before) but you need a needle or a very thin sim ejector

Wouldn't a metallic pin increase risk for shorts inside the port? I personally use the toothpick end of flossing picks. They're usually very thin and the plastic material doesn't cause any hard abrasion.

Normally that's correct except that the USB-C pinout is well designed to not put GND and VBUS near each other so it's pretty difficult to actually short anything. Still it's better to use something non-conductive.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it’s the opposite, it ashames me to be an EU citizen. The problem with the EU is that it forces this kind of stuff on everyone instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. There is little/no feedback control hence it will drift down the usual decline of increasingly authoritarian systems. It‘s a shame because of the opportunity costs.

> instead of letting countries compete for the best policies. The way we have let manufacturers compete to create the best standard for power adaptors?

I wouldn't agree, we are all living in a system where monopolies are trying to benefit easiest ways, and diverse population tries to eliminate useless gatekeeping by as minimum regulation as possible. The complexity of this "minimum regulation" task always evolves, and not that many countries succeed ever. So in my opinion, EU as a joint effort of _countries_ you mentioned, forced to break this useless monopoly gatekeeping, making competition tougher for monopolist. This is good, but it is very rare occasion when it's really that easy solution like this. And yeah it could be patternized in a wrong way obviously... but the idea itself is for good. It it the reason why standards exist, it makes coordination cheaper, competition tougher, and users more productive.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#390
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU citizens are sceptical of the corporations and their ability to regulate themselves. Different attitudes, the American psyche definitely allows for better innovation and business environment but on the other hand in EU we don't have carcinogens in our bread. It is O.K. to have two or more different societies, those feeling like they need more freedom for business can go to the US. It definitely makes the US much m…

> It's not like EU making up things that members didn't ask for. The EU does opinion polls to find out what people's top concerns are. Guess what: mobile phone connectors, cookie popups, GDPR and all the other crap the EU engages in never gets anywhere even close to the top of the pile. We saw what the EU does when a member asks for changes requested by their "EU citizens". It told the UK to fuck off and then threw a…

Opinion polls are one thing, the EU itself is mede up of elected officials and officials appointed by elected officials.

If UK wants to block travel and resident rights of EU citizens and keep access into EU markets, that's obviously where the EU has to say fuck off. Non-British have opinions too and the opinions are overweeningly that if you want to be in EU you have to have the same rights and obligations like everybody else. No one is obligated to provide others with privileges just because they threaten to leave, they are free to leave and enjoy not being in the club. Which is silly because all those "EU rules" are put in place together with the British anyway.

Speaking if opinion polls, here are some of the latest opinions polls of the British public on Brexit: https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/joining-or-staying-o...

Post reply on HN