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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#361

Post by nordsieck »

lwhi wrote: post #283
jackvezkovic wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This EU regulation diminishes the incentive of researching and developing a new technology in this area. This is a fact. And no, innovation usually does not come from a bunch of companies sitting down to cooperate on a new version. First there is individual innovation, then there is consolidation, even if these come with changes from the original.

Absolutely not true. There's still an incentive to be the company that replaces the technology. FUD.

> There's still an incentive to be the company that replaces the technology.

That may be the case. But the innovation won't be deployed to Europe first.

Technologies and standards need adoption first before they'll be taken seriously by bureaucrats. And you're going to have a hard time getting adoption if it's literally against the law to do so.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#362

Post by Aeolun »

christophilus wrote: post #228
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

> there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption

Or the other way around, that will mandate it’s adoption.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#363

Post by [deleted] »

scarface74 wrote: post #315
sitkack wrote: post #257

USB-C could have used the lightening but we can thank Apple for that. USB should have never existed, it was a scam by Intel (and Microsoft) to put the PC at the center of everything. In a non-dumb world, we would be using Firewire over something like a lightening connector. Jobs was too greedy with Firewire for it to be successful.

You know that FireWire was a Sony standard right?

[deleted]

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#364

Post by revelio »

mrtksn wrote: post #189
nickpp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, we cannot know the creations and innovations we are missing due to the unintended second-order freezing effects of regulation. This is why we need to be extremely skeptical of regulation and only accept it in truly important and non-trivial cases (unlike a damn charging plug). There is a clear push from European elites for a halt in progress, aiming to maintain a status quo and preserve their existing…

EU citizens are sceptical of the corporations and their ability to regulate themselves. Different attitudes, the American psyche definitely allows for better innovation and business environment but on the other hand in EU we don't have carcinogens in our bread. It is O.K. to have two or more different societies, those feeling like they need more freedom for business can go to the US. It definitely makes the US much m…

> It's not like EU making up things that members didn't ask for.

The EU does opinion polls to find out what people's top concerns are. Guess what: mobile phone connectors, cookie popups, GDPR and all the other crap the EU engages in never gets anywhere even close to the top of the pile.

We saw what the EU does when a member asks for changes requested by their "EU citizens". It told the UK to fuck off and then threw a hissy fit when the Brits actually did so.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#365

Post by bluGill »

taf2 wrote: post #118

What happens when there is a better USB-C plug - isn't there a concern that locking into the current standard means in 50 years the EU is still stuck. I imagine we're in uncharted territory given in less then my lifetime USB was invented and has gone through at least 14 iterations e.g. it's been changing very fast. Unfortunately I fear even asking this question probably angers some, but I think it's an interesting qu…

It is.time to be done. All thus 'innovation' around connectors means innovation around things using the.connectors is more expensive. What is not being developed because there is no standard and thus you couldn't connect your new gadget and still sell it for a.reasonable price.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#366

Post by Aeolun »

crote wrote: post #242
dahfizz wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a common misunderstanding. The EU previously issued a Memorandum of Understanding, which basically just asked phone manufacturer nicely to please use USB micro-B. There was no mandate or enforcement (obviously, because Apple never released a phone with micro-B). The USB-C law is an actual law which can't be ignored. The law will need to be updated when USB-D comes out.

If I recall correctly, the Memorandum of Understanding was basically "please come up with an industry-standard connector", not "use micro-B".

Clearly they figured out that a friendly note wasn’t good enough.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#367

Post by micwag »

blitz_skull wrote: post #284

Okay, ELI5—why does the EU care so damn badly about a charging cable providing the same speed no matter who manufactures it?

Say Samsung releases a new TV that has a HDMI 2.1 Port that support crisp 4K HDR, but only if you use a Samsung certified cable. If you use a third party HMDI 2.1 cable your resolution drops to SD DESPITE the HMDI 2.1 Standard supporting 4K HDR.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#368

Post by andyjohnson0 »

oxfordmale wrote: post #79
Gigachad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What accessory makers? The only thing lightning is used for these days is charging. I can’t imagine that charging cables is a huge money spinner for apple.

It is not the charging cables, but the actual chargers itself. They are eye watering expensive if you buy them from Apple directly. Amazon and eBay are flooded with fakes that can be life threateningly dangerous. I can see why some people prefer to buy from Apple rather than figuring out what brands are actually not going to burn your house down.

Good point re dangerous fakes, but I wonder how persuasive it is in practice. Ive occasionally seen teardowns of fire-risk power blocks on hn, but (genuine question, because idk) is that a mainstream concern?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#369

Post by Moldoteck »

ralfd wrote: post #324
kibwen wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It never crossed your mind that there may be a reason that Apple does not want to use the USB-C standard The reason is extremely obvious: cementing user lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.

Lightning is smaller than USB-C. That alone makes it more desirable for space-obsessed Apple. I think it is more robust and easier to clean too.

And lightning is usb2.0 and what it can do to be backwards compatible and offer 240w or more for charging and gigabits of data transfer like latest usb-c is unknown. But what we do know? Usb c is superior and it has been for years and Apple didn't switch to it on phones to sell users proprietary accestories that connect only by that port

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#370

Post by ohgodplsno »

detourdog wrote: post #244
croes wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You aren't forced to use only USB-C but to provide at least USB-C without artificial disadvantages. Without those standards the users are stuck or need to rebuy all accessories.

The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The only thing needed is a cable. I only want 1 port on my phone. I don't really care what that port is. I'm very uncomfortable with government mandated ports.

In keeping in line with your stance, I hope that you are also uncomfortable with the government mandating your power sockets, your lightbulb plugs, the 120V/240 running through your power lines, the pipings running through your house, the bands used by phones, and much more.

That, or you could accept that USBC is fine and that there is absolutely no needed improvement that cannot be done in the form of USB-C. Slapping magnets on USBC is not prohibited if that's what your heart desires. In the mean time, you'll live with charging your phone with 100W, I promise.

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