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EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

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Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#271

Post by belltaco »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #154
epolanski wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either come from Apple making better chargers or artificially slowing third party ones) defeating the purpose of having less electronic waste.

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector,…

> The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector, the iPhone connector, has been the longest standing standard connector (11 years now)

Not sure how that's irony, since the connector is proprietary and not an open standard, resulting in e-waste and expensive chargers.

Your argument would have more weight if they opened it up. Do you think Apple should have done that?

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#272

Post by tankenmate »

detourdog wrote: post #244
croes wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can't have different ports on a smartphone? You aren't forced to use only USB-C but to provide at least USB-C without artificial disadvantages. Without those standards the users are stuck or need to rebuy all accessories.

The lightning cable has whatever you want on the other end. The only thing needed is a cable. I only want 1 port on my phone. I don't really care what that port is. I'm very uncomfortable with government mandated ports.

Using the lightning cable has more onerous standardisation and compliance requirements (not all of which are purely technical requirements) than USB. This is one of the reasons that there is less availability of lightning port accessories.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#273

Post by frankfrankfrank »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #161
phist_mcgee wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when old grandma gets hit with a fake banking app download that steals her life savings all will be right with the world as well?

Don’t worry, the EU apparatchiks have surely made themselves responsible for the consequences of their actions. It’s “Our Democracy”™ after all.

[flagged]

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#274

Post by ransom1538 »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #154
epolanski wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulations get updated, you aren't stuck on usb-c. What EU wants to avoid is Apple giving "unfair" advantages to their own chargers (which could either come from Apple making better chargers or artificially slowing third party ones) defeating the purpose of having less electronic waste.

I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea. You lament their concern with fairness, by giving unfair advantages to the USB-C license holders/patent holders? I’m not even sure people understand that Apple also contributed heavily to the development of USB-C along with other companies, some of them European. The irony is that I believe the Lightning Connector,…

" I’m all for some kind of universality, but this authoritarian method does not strike me as a good idea."

Rent to high? No problem, make increasing rent illegal. Got a homeless problem? Make it illegal to be homeless. Don't like changing your power cord? No problem: illegal. All these ideas would be like playing chess with the ability to only think one move ahead. It would be like having a 12 year old king pronounce today is ice cream day [all while facing certain thermonuclear war].

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#275

Post by jzb »

christophilus wrote: post #228
crote wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law explicitly states that it has to be reviewed every couple of years to determine whether USB-C it is still the best choice, or there has been sufficient technological progress to warrant a switch to a newer standard. The fear for a "lock-in" is completely unfounded, as the EU previously quasi-mandated Micro USB and switching to USB-C was no issue whatsoever. Besides, nothing is stopping manufacturers from incl…

But if the whole world adopted this kind of regulatory stance, there would be much less incentive to invent that better cable because you now have huge regulatory bodies that may block its adoption and thus mean most of that work was money and time wasted. This kind of thing may tilt the risk / reward of research towards the riskier end of the spectrum. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing— just that it’s not without cons…

If the whole world adopted this stance maybe I wouldn’t an overflowing box of useless, obsolete cables. Maybe I wouldn’t need separate chargers and cables for my phone, tablet, ebook reader, and other assorted devices.

The amount of waste produced because companies are incentivized to produce incompatible devices like charger cables is staggering. The additional cost burden on users is unnecessary. The theoretical benefit of a better cable is not worth it.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#276

Post by Vespasian »

elzbardico wrote: post #221

This is definitely not good news for iPhone users. The thing with lightning is that it is fucking robust. USB-C may not be as bad as the micro-USB but it is still more fragile than lightning. People should be able to choose, if you love One Connector To Rule’em all just get and Android phone.

Maybe to put you mind a little bit at ease anecdotally, I never had a USB-c plug or socket fail on me even with intense (ab)use. The same is true for my immediate family

It probably happens though.

I had cheap-o cables break but this is hardly the fault of usb-c

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#277

Post by bonzini »

throwaway50606 wrote: post #176
mrtksn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to sell it on both markets and can't have two production lines, I guess your product will have USB-C port and your superior charging port, like the new MacBooks having type-C and magsafe.

And that's supposed to be good? I really don't understand this world...

Having three computers of different brands in the family (an HP, a Lenovo and a Microsoft Surface), it's certainly been useful in the past to be able to share a single charging port for all computers and most phones in the family.

In fact, USB-C and magsafe are complementary. USB-C is commonly used by displays to provide docking station functionality, so I can buy any display and use it with any computer (instead of having to buy a proprietary docking station that is different for each model). If I'm travelling, I can enjoy the more robust magsafe connector but I can also use USB-C if needed.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#278

Post by jon-wood »

a13o wrote: post #95
jon-wood wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re aware USB-A to USB-C cables exist right? None of your wall sockets are rendered obsolete, although admittedly you’ll need a few new cables/adapters.

GP's USB wall sockets will be obsolete in short order, not because of Apple, but because the USB Power Delivery standards are still rapidly evolving. The latest version can even power high energy devices like workstation laptops and displays. But unless they bought cutting edge tech after 2021, chances are whatever got put in the wall sockets is low-power USB-A and destined for obsolescence in a handful of years.

I don’t think it is destined for obsolescence. They were presumably installed to charge phones and other low power devices, which they will continue to do.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#279

Post by notimetorelax »

least wrote: post #258
JeremyNT wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this something that happens often for iPhones? I've never seen anything like it with USBC in my non-Apple household. Perhaps the "benefit" you describe is only relevant because the proprietary Apple cable design is so poor?

> Perhaps the "benefit" you describe is only relevant because the proprietary Apple cable design is so poor? No, the lightning connector's design is actually less prone to snapping than USB type c. Whether or not that it is an advantage is subjective, given that cables are inexpensive and the devices they're attached to generally are not. In my opinion lightning is a vastly superior connector to USB-C. It's easier to…

I have a different experience with lightning. Almost all my lightning cables show burn marks on the connector on one side and charge only in a particular orientation. This behavior reproduces with new cables and new iDevices. Anecdotally, I never had any issues with USB-C charging.

Re: EU sends Apple stark warning over USB-C charging on new iPhones

#280

Post by avereveard »

nachteilig wrote: post #7

I would basically never assume that the EU actually understand the technical parts of these regulations. On its face it sounds pro-consumer, but USB-C is hardly a unified experience and I am almost sympathetic with Apple here from a user experience perspective.

Also we are locking down a technology in law, so then now improving the standard is no longer about technological advantage but lobbying power.

Heck it's not even hard to imagine a world where the EU was a little bit faster and phones would be stuck on micro or mini ports.

But today these concerns get heavily suppressed. Funny how open and free never quite mean that. Anyway we shall see in ten years.

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