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Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

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Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#71

Post by qwytw »

bombcar wrote: post #39
webmobdev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, milking the lower end is just unfair and will obviously create resentment in freelancers. A really long time back I complained to them that their fees were unfair (I think about the time when eLance and oDesk merged). And their reply was educational to me - "Why are you paying the fees? Bill it to your client or share the cost with them?" . And I did start doing that. Few clients were ok with that because the <$…

All fees get paid by the customer in one way or another, it's just how it's advertised and how you think about it. With business-related things it's better to have it upfront in my experience.

> All fees get paid by the customer in one way or another

In theory only partially if the freelancers are competing with those who are not using the platform and just bill their clients directly.

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#72

Post by vimy »

msadowski wrote: post #54
8organicbits wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> locks you in for 2 years with a client Can you explain?

I didn’t check the ToC in a while but last time I did if you got a client through Upwork you cannot work with them outside of their platform for two years otherwise you and the client risk a fine.

An empty threat. There’s no way they would know.

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#73

Post by scarface74 »

For reference: I was unfortunate enough to be a tech lead after a company got bought out by private equity. Their edict was “they don’t want to be a tech company”. I was forced to hire contractors through an agency.

They charged us at least 20% more than the contractor.

I also work in cloud consulting at $BigTech. I know exactly how much money I bring into the company at I know how much my bill rate is. The company takes much more than a 10% cut.

On a broader note: it’s easy to find out how much revenue BigTech brings in per employee and compare it to your compensation.

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#74

Post by 8organicbits »

msadowski wrote: post #54
8organicbits wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> locks you in for 2 years with a client Can you explain?

I didn’t check the ToC in a while but last time I did if you got a client through Upwork you cannot work with them outside of their platform for two years otherwise you and the client risk a fine.

Not even contract to hire? What kind of fine are we talking about?

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#76

Post by AJ007 »

safety1st wrote: post #44
desaiguddu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, most of the Upwork jobs are upwards of $1000 if it's a serious client. A large number of freelancers & agencies have built a stable clients on Upwork from years together. It will be a little revenue shock for them. Or eventually clients will pay more to cover the costs. Let's assume you are a freelancer with a client relationship of 40k * 20% fee for the first $500 earned from a client - $100 * 10% fee between…

Yeah, a lifetime 10% just for making the introduction is pure exploitation. On the buyer side we have been defrauded by Upwork providers and the company did absolutely nothing. Clear cut case of illegal activity and ToS violation, Upwork did nothing other than take our money. The FTC needs to beat this gang of criminals into the ground. They are a racket from top to bottom. Fraud shouldn't pay. Exploitation of worker…

Upwork contractors reside in many different jurisdictions around the world so I won't even trying guessing the legalities. Certainly they are breaking the law somewhere. However, one thing is certain: there is a very strong incentive to not look for long term contracts on Upwork.

That incentive always was there, but it was small. It isn't small any longer. The trajectory makes one wonder what this fee will be in another year or two. Clearly they won't be lowering it.

Upwork is not an independently sustainable company. Upwork shares are worth less than at their 2018 IPO. They've never really been profitable. They rarely have a positive free cash flow. They've increased outstanding share count 26%. The things they've done only reduced the value customers receive from them (like when they decided to charge extra money to view contractor reports.)

How did they never make any money? Companies spend billions of dollars a year on recruiting. This isn't a tiny market. Someone grossly mismanaged Upwork -- for their customers, for their contractors, and their shareholders.

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#77

Post by roflyear »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #66

Why are they still afloat? Last time I checked you couldn't find any work there: - You could only find jobs if you were ready to underbid everyone else. - The disproportion between the amount of work and job-seekers was abysmal. - The platform did nothing to protect the workers from untruthful or exploitative clients (from anecdotal evidence). - Upwork attracts clients who can't find contractors any other way, mostly…

They don't protect employers either. We had a guy whos contract was still open and he booked 80hrs and scammed us and then closed his account. Couldn't get the money back from upwork

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#78

Post by hakube »

How's Upwork nowadays? I tried getting some gigs there for 3+ years and got nothing. I had more success with r/forhire and Craigslist and the good thing is there's no middleman. Heck, I even spent for Freelancer Plus and I just lost my connects to people who didn't even consider to read my proposal and check my profile

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#79

Post by roflyear »

elwebmaster wrote: post #62
fbrncci wrote: post #41

When I started out as a freelancer / independent contractor, I made the conscious decision to not use any of these platforms, out of fear for my client base or finances being tied up and taken away from me due to a simple ToS violation; the fees never sat with me either. Admittedly, it took so much longer to get a consistent base of clients (1-2 years), but it feels like a fresh of breath air over having to rely on a…

Don’t worry, on Upwork you can blatantly violate the TOS and even if the client complains the platform will not take away the payments. Or maybe they will, but they most definitely will not refund them to the client. Speaking from experience (as the client).

Same experience

Re: Upwork removing 5% commission bracket and moving everyone to 10% bracket

#80

Post by stevesimmons »

msadowski wrote: post #56
csunbird wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a tax advisor, but you probably need to show that you paid Upwork 10$ as commission and get a business expense deduction.

In some countries not necessarily. I’m based in Czech Republic and as a sole proprietor the most preferential way to do taxes (up to certain threshold) is to report the gross income and use a tax rule that assumes that it cost you 60% of gross revenue to get your income. In this case the lower income shown the better.

So you've spent 10% and are 50% up. Isn't that already advantageous enough for you?

Taxes fund a civilised and (mostly) well run society that you benefit from. Misreporting your gross income shifts more of that burden onto your friends and neighbours!

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