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Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

blog.waymo.com

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Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#301
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Concord, Google Glass, etc. Just because something can be achieved technologically, doesn't mean there is demand for it at the price you'd need to charge for it to make sense.

Big difference though, nobody needed Google Glass, Magic Leap, FB Metaverse, or the feature that adds a fart sound in a Tesla. Almost anyone who needs transportation would use such taxis if they become affordable.

Don't get me wrong. Self driving taxis are cool. I'd like to use Waymo if it were launched where I live, at that price.

But that's a very large set of very large assumptions, stacked on top of each other! I can immediately think of lots of ways it can go wrong:

1. The economics may never work.

2. The "can't speed won't speed" problem may prove politically unsolvable, meaning people end up preferring taxis who avoid liability by being decentralized.

3. Google's core business may falter before Waymo manages to become financially independent, and in the absence of Waymo other competitors may decide it's no longer worth the investment vs Tesla-style incrementalism.

4. Public transport isn't going anywhere in high density cities simply due to limited road capacity.

5. Many people may simply prefer having their own cars even if Waymo taxis are everywhere, simply because you can't beat the latency of walking to your own driveway.

But the core problem is going to be price. Taxi drivers are cheap. For years people said Uber/Lyft would build up brand loyalty, raise prices and start making money any day now. After all it's ultimately just a ridehailing app, it's not that hard to make, so how can they not make a decent business out of it? Yet they never did get to that point even though it's a million times easier. Waymo not only has to find a way to turn a regular weekly profit taking into account their ultra-expensive staff, hardware, energy costs, support costs, etc but then maybe even one day yield enough profit to pay off the initial investment! All of that whilst competing in a super low margin market? Maybe it can be done but when I see the reasons people are giving here for why they like Waymo cars (clean, safe, etc) I'm not seeing the basis of a great company. It sounds a lot like the reasons I heard when Uber first appeared, even. And it's certainly WAY easier to compete on those aspects whilst still using human drivers.

Perhaps one day yes, presumably someone will get self-driving taxis to the point of being a sustainable business, but it might well be writeoff for Google just like it was for Uber.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not really when you consider their burn rate. Say each of those trips gross 10$. That’s just 100k/week or $5.2 million/year. They’d need to likely 10,000x the ride volume to even be close to profitability. Uber does 7.64 billion rides per year. And they are not profitable. The waymo cars sure ain’t cheap, and scale of operations will take a ton of cash. I wonder if waymo would ever be profitable.

1. It's impossible! 2. It's possible but it's going to take forever 3. It's real and happening now but it's dangerous 4. It's not dangerous but it's annoying and blocking an intersection sometimes 5. It's not annoying but maybe they won't make money we are here. 6. It makes money but what about drivers 7. It works in cities but what about suburbs 8. It works in suburbs but what about rural areas 9. This city in Turkm…

If "makes money" is taking in any revenue at all then it should be much higher in the list.

Also I don't think they've reached "not annoying" yet.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#303
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the Wall Street Journal? https://www.wsj.com/articles/activist-investor-calls-on-goog... Or The Guardian? https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/nov/15/major-inv... > “We are writing to express our view that the cost base of Alphabet is too high and management needs to take aggressive action,” TCI wrote in the letter, signed by managing director Christopher Hohn. “The company has too many employees and…

What makes you think that TCI was the reason for the layoffs?

https://www.teamblind.com/post/Google-Layoffs---TCI-Fund-Yq4...

This is a follow-up from TCI

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a mistake by the fire truck. You aren't supposed to preemptively run a red light to help them, they're supposed to order you to do it right away if that's what they want.

This surprised me, and I haven’t found any information one way or the other about the universality of the rule, but I did find this guide that strongly implies you’re correct. https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-truck-crash/articles/stop-f...

In Germany you have to make way/not obstruct, though you don't have to endanger yourself excessively. So if the traffic behaves, you absolutely have to move out of the emergency vehicle's way traffic light be damned. Usually you'd pull over to not put yourself into a prime t-boning spot, but with good visibility you actually drive across the intersection to where you where going anyways, and ensure you let them pass.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#305
post #82
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - The cars are very safe, very conservative drivers So great to hear. Seeing videos of self-driving Tesla made me fear for the worst.

It's understandable, but very unfortunate that people group Waymo, Cruise, and Tesla together. Waymo is at least 5-10 years more advanced.

It’s really really not, Waymo only works in a tiny section of the country which has almost perfect conditions for self driving. Let me know when it works in upstate New York during winter.

Tesla is developing a general solution which works everywhere and can take left hand turns! ;)

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbh, you shouldn't compare Tesla "AutoPilot" with these full self driving options.

The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable, but not able to drive by itself for long time.

>The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable

Have they removed the "you need to be fully aware and ready to grab the wheel" requirements of FSD? If not, how is this comparable? There is no driver.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#307
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's understandable, but very unfortunate that people group Waymo, Cruise, and Tesla together. Waymo is at least 5-10 years more advanced.

It’s really really not, Waymo only works in a tiny section of the country which has almost perfect conditions for self driving. Let me know when it works in upstate New York during winter. Tesla is developing a general solution which works everywhere and can take left hand turns! ;)

>Tesla is developing a general solution which works everywhere and can take left hand turns!

Ah yes, the classic comparison between a product you can literally go out and use, today, versus some hypothetical Tesla future state. No matter how good the technology is, Tesla promises something better and people act like it exists.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#309

Phoenix gets like 300 days of sunny weather, Bay area also has historically mild climate. Why is almost no comments mentioning this?

This doesn't suit the narrative that self-driving cars are close to taking over. Up in the northeast US, drivers are actually a lot better at controlling their vehicles than bay area and southwestern drivers thanks to the fact that everyone has to drive in ice and snow.

Re: Waymo One doubles service area in Phoenix, continues growing in SF

#310

Phoenix gets like 300 days of sunny weather, Bay area also has historically mild climate. Why is almost no comments mentioning this?

> Bay area also has historically mild climate

Bay Area yes. San Francisco less so. Sure it doesn’t get snow but it is often rainy and foggy.

Beyond that, the drivers are very aggressive along with pedestrians and cyclists. It is not a very easy place to drive.

Are you suggesting that they should start development in a more extreme climate right off the bat?

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