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Let's End Adolescence

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Re: Let's End Adolescence

#41

Post by unalone »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #36
Dilpil wrote: post #11

The real purpose of high school is keeping the roving hordes of teenagers off the street. Teenagers have no judgement (I certainly didn't), and we would like to have some method of keeping them occupied. Unfortunately, where before that method involved actual learning, nowadays schools are basically just low security prisons. Furthermore, Newt is completely off when he claims that all adolescents want more responsibi…

> A small fraction of adolescents want more responsibility It's a question of the meaning of "want." I think a small fraction of adolescents can articulate that they "want" meaningful responsibility and structure, or make any efforts to get it.

I think that lots of adolescents honestly do not want to do anything. They prefer having no responsibilities whatsoever.

I thought it was otherwise: that people who didn't want to work or improve or learn were people that didn't have a good method of doing so, that they were restricted by the system. Long story short, I found out that's radically not the truth. Some people are a little bit icky inside.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#42

Post by unalone »

thomasmallen wrote: post #25
Alex3917 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Who are these proponents?" Schools, colleges, associated faculty and staff, parents, politicians, employers, etc. "What are the numbers? What are they selling?" Degrees, GPA, US News rank, X vs educational attainment (e.g. future earnings potential), etc. "What benefits?" The story of school. That is, what it means to be well educated/qualified is having a degree, having gone to a good school, having gotten a good G…

OK, good details, now it doesn't sound like so much of a bullshit theory to me. You should have included these details in the first place, I think.

But that's how a debate or a discussion goes. You give a very general overview of your ideas, and you get more detailed after questions arise. That way discussions are more focused and lead themselves to perusal more readily.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#43

Post by kingkongrevenge »

unalone wrote: post #38
bokonist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology and politics can move in opposite directions. Technology is far, far better. The political situation is much worse. Overall, life is far better. Unfortunately, we don't have an example of what adolescence would look like if we had the same growth of technology but without the decline in the political system. I suspect though, if we could glimpse into this alternate world it would blow us away.

I don't know. I'm almost certain we'd lose something in that alternate world as well. In particular, we'd lose a tolerance for the diversity of the world. College is tremendous for that: it's the one thing it's tremendous for. You realize what radically different sorts of people there are in the world. Without that, if you're born and raised in a suburb then there's a good chance you never realize what you're missing…

> You realize what radically different sorts of people there are in the world

I would argue the exact opposite. The majority of college educated people I know have never had a friend of less than middle class origins. The statistics show we have a society of increasing class stratification; people never marry down anymore, for example.

College and credentialism is also reinforcing an elitist attitude to manual labor. I've even seen several posts on this board that implicitly assume someone who works with their hands must be inferior to a "knowledge worker." We're getting MORE social division, not less.

And let's not kid ourselves about the real level of diversity in colleges. Hispanics are WAY underrepresented, and probably always will be. You're not going to come to any sort of understanding of chicano culture by going to college.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#44

Post by unalone »

gaius wrote: post #27
dpatru wrote: post #23

A long time ago I listened to "The Bell Curve" on tape. One of valuable ideas I got from the book was that we should strive to create a valuable place for everyone in society. Everyone, whether young or old, intelligent or not, should feel that they are contributing something of value. No one should feel that they have nothing to give and that society would be better off without them. Furthermore, we should encourage…

Everyone, whether young or old, intelligent or not, should feel that they are contributing something of value If the average person is not contributing at least the economic value they are consuming, your society is in a death spiral, and it doesn't matter how anyone "feels".

But what does "having a valuable place in society" have to do with not contributing economic value? I don't quite understand you.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#45

Post by kingkongrevenge »

unalone wrote: post #35
josefresco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex and drugs are not activities exclusive to adults (nor should they be). Kids DO have better things to do, and for them (as well as adults) it's usually sex/drugs/rock&roll that are the 'better things'.

Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored. I don't know a person that got into either for any reason but "There's nothing to do." I hear that from every single party-going person on my dorm floor when they go out. "I need to get drunk, because there's no other reason to be in college and there's nothing to do."

> Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored.

And here I was thinking that sex and drugs are loads of fun, regardless of whether you're bored or not.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#46

Post by unalone »

frisco wrote: post #15

One thing that continually throws me is the whole, "more school, especially more college!" idea. The skills that have actually put me in interesting situations, like serious brain machine interface research or a startup doing quantitative methods for human resources, had nothing to do with school. At least for me, I'd have been much better suited for an "apprenticeship" rather than having just having to tolerate clas…

You won't get middle American teenagers to sit down and study like Chinese students will; but that's fine. Our hackers will end up just as knowledgeable as theirs, and maybe more creative.

I couldn't agree more.

Our national drive to rebel against things and disobey orders is one of the best, if one of the most frustrating, things we've got going for us. We should encourage people to do things their own way, to try thinking out of the box. Even if it doesn't work, any time you try to do things differently you'll learn something, even if that thing is "what not to do next time."

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#47

Post by ksvs »

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #45
unalone wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored. I don't know a person that got into either for any reason but "There's nothing to do." I hear that from every single party-going person on my dorm floor when they go out. "I need to get drunk, because there's no other reason to be in college and there's nothing to do."

> Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored. And here I was thinking that sex and drugs are loads of fun, regardless of whether you're bored or not.

Both are true. When you're bored you get into dumber kinds of fun.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#48

Post by unalone »

IsaacSchlueter wrote: post #37
vladimir wrote: post #26

I think if going to school will be money-making profession, it will encourage corruption in the system of education.

So profit causes corruption?

It does if profit becomes a primary rather than a secondary motive. If you teach students "Learn to make things that people want," that would be fine. If you teach "Make money" and leave it at that, things would corrupt.

Similarly, anything that's left open to profit will corrupt. Look at the difference between Fox News and PBS. In some cases, not having to worry about money lets you be uncompromising in your delivery. I think schools would work the same way.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#49

Post by ksvs »

ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #18

If Newt Gingrich says this, I have to wonder if it is because Republican think tanks have come to the conclusion that the allure of Democratic ideals are too irresistible for school/university inhabiting kids, and they must be converted to tax paying realists much earlier.

This DH1 feels a bit too tight. Do you have anything in a DH4?

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#50

Post by unalone »

ksvs wrote: post #47
kingkongrevenge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored. And here I was thinking that sex and drugs are loads of fun, regardless of whether you're bored or not.

Both are true. When you're bored you get into dumber kinds of fun.

You nailed it.

I've smoked marijuana before. I've been drunk. I haven't had sex, because I'm into the idea of abstinence, but I'd done everything but. And absolutely those things are enjoyable.

The difference is that I don't rely on stuff like that. I write, I program, I design things, I read, I try to write music and shoot films. I don't feel the need to drink once a week, or to go out and randomly hook up. And that's because I have so many things I can do at any given moment.

If you don't have that stuff, you're forced to rely on sex and drugs. And those things are both easily abused.

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