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Let's End Adolescence

businessweek.com

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Re: Let's End Adolescence

#31

Post by unalone »

Tichy wrote: post #13

Why stop there - let's remove individuality altogether. With a proper mix of drugs, children could absorb the lessons at school at a much faster rate, and could take the role they are destined for with near 100% accuracy. Unwanted and misleading desires could be done away with. Imagine the benefits for society if kids were 100% docile and controllable.

Yeah. Because school is ABSOLUTELY a good way to promote individuality and unique thinking. Because most teachers DON'T push for students to adapt to a single way of thinking because it makes them easy to manage. Because students DON'T judge students for individuality, creating a lopsided social ladder that lasts easily into college.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#32

Post by bmj »

mnemonicsloth wrote: post #2

Adolescence was invented in the 19th century to enable middle-class families to keep their children out of sweatshops. But it has degenerated into a process of enforced boredom and age segregation... The fact is, most young people want to be challenged and given real responsibility. They want to be treated like young men and women, not old children. Where have we heard this before? http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html

Or maybe Ivan Illich?

http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Illich/Deschooling/intro.h...

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#33

Post by wallflower »

mynameishere wrote: post #24
Dilpil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason republicans so frequently tout this line is because they fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of education. Newt and company believe that education is essentially career training, and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals. Industry does not want to simply hire people who know exactly how to…

and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology I'm pretty sure that Gingrich who is a professor, and every other republican who has ever considered the question in any way, recognizes the use and purpose of calculus and biology. But don't let reason get in the way of your mindless contempt. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals No, it isn't, unless…

> The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals

Reminds me of something Seth Godin (?) once said - that the whole purpose of school is to institutionalize mediocrity

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#35

Post by unalone »

josefresco wrote: post #7
omouse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If high STD and drug use rates tell us anything, it's that these young people are, on average, too immature to assume adult roles. Or that they have nothing better to do?

Sex and drugs are not activities exclusive to adults (nor should they be). Kids DO have better things to do, and for them (as well as adults) it's usually sex/drugs/rock&roll that are the 'better things'.

Most kids get into sex and drugs because they're bored. I don't know a person that got into either for any reason but "There's nothing to do." I hear that from every single party-going person on my dorm floor when they go out. "I need to get drunk, because there's no other reason to be in college and there's nothing to do."

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#36

Post by kingkongrevenge »

Dilpil wrote: post #11

The real purpose of high school is keeping the roving hordes of teenagers off the street. Teenagers have no judgement (I certainly didn't), and we would like to have some method of keeping them occupied. Unfortunately, where before that method involved actual learning, nowadays schools are basically just low security prisons. Furthermore, Newt is completely off when he claims that all adolescents want more responsibi…

> A small fraction of adolescents want more responsibility

It's a question of the meaning of "want." I think a small fraction of adolescents can articulate that they "want" meaningful responsibility and structure, or make any efforts to get it.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#38

Post by unalone »

bokonist wrote: post #28
peakok wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You give too much power to politics. I think that the dramatic increase of productivity and the creation of much more wealth in the post-industrial society is the main factor in the emergence of the "adolescent". Suddenly families didn't spend their whole budget on food, housing, and they had a lot more of free time to do something else than satisfying their basic needs. They sent their childs to education because th…

Technology and politics can move in opposite directions. Technology is far, far better. The political situation is much worse. Overall, life is far better. Unfortunately, we don't have an example of what adolescence would look like if we had the same growth of technology but without the decline in the political system. I suspect though, if we could glimpse into this alternate world it would blow us away.

I don't know. I'm almost certain we'd lose something in that alternate world as well. In particular, we'd lose a tolerance for the diversity of the world. College is tremendous for that: it's the one thing it's tremendous for. You realize what radically different sorts of people there are in the world. Without that, if you're born and raised in a suburb then there's a good chance you never realize what you're missing out on.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#39

Post by unalone »

nir wrote: post #6

The 3 stage process of childhood - adolescence - adulthood is already irrelevant in many affluent Western countries, but what was removed isn't adolescence but adulthood. Many 40 year olds manage their lives as teenagers (look at the low birth rate in western Europe, or high divorce rate in the US) and vice versa - teenagers build $15b (if you believe it ;)) companies.

I don't think it's fair to assume specific phases of life whatsoever: people don't automatically grow up. Some people seem to skip the adolescence phase and go right to adulthood, for better or for worse.

However, it IS fair to say that society reacts to people of certain ages as if the sheer fact of getting older meant instant change in mood and personality. And that's harmful.

Re: Let's End Adolescence

#40

Post by unalone »

wallflower wrote: post #33
mynameishere wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and as such cannot fathom why kids need to be learning things like calculus and biology I'm pretty sure that Gingrich who is a professor, and every other republican who has ever considered the question in any way, recognizes the use and purpose of calculus and biology. But don't let reason get in the way of your mindless contempt. The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals No, it isn't, unless…

> The real purpose of education is to turn people into intellectuals Reminds me of something Seth Godin (?) once said - that the whole purpose of school is to institutionalize mediocrity

Don't knock on intellectuals. There's something to be gained from the path they take. The fact that most people miss the path entirely doesn't change that. It's like saying that most programmers never make anything of worth: yes, it's true, but it doesn't make the entire career irrelevant.

That quote, however, is spot-on. Anything that doesn't focus on the best and brightest hurts the best and brightest in a way. And the fact that they survive despite this is a sign of those people ignoring the system rather than of the system's working. I wrote a lengthy post about this long long ago: can't find the link, apparently subjects delete themselves here?, but my point was that by making a system that was hostile to people like that, while ensuring it possible to live without the system, American school systems encourage people driven by ambition to become successes. It's why we have such a powerful entrepreneurial drive in the country.

I wish I could find the link, though, because I said it better back then.

EDIT: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=258239

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