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Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

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Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#101

Post by t-writescode »

warkdarrior wrote: post #99
t-writescode wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 45 days a year for pet bereavement? If it includes goldfish, I'm in! This is a bad read of this. While 45 days is ... huge, the inclusion of pets and friends is almost certainly a result of companies who refuse to let anyone grieve when their friend dies. As someone who has lost _way too many_ people in the last 18 months and only 1 of them being immediate family, having those others considered not worth mourning a…

Sorry for your losses. On the other hand, if my employer offered 45 days of paid time off under certain conditions, I'd do my best to maximize that benefit.

If you worked for a company that actively treated you well, I imagine, in general, you'd want to treat them well in return and wouldn't exploit their kindness beyond need.

Such companies are few and far between, though. Very few. Very far between.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#102

Post by subsistence234 »

bombcar wrote: post #100
warkdarrior wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for your losses. On the other hand, if my employer offered 45 days of paid time off under certain conditions, I'd do my best to maximize that benefit.

There's an argument on either side - many companies/employers offer 6 months paid parental leave after a child is born (for both parents), but I haven't seen many people maximizing that benefit by having a child every 12 months.

lmao (honestly) at the humorous implication that buying a goldfish per year and mourning its demise for 9 weeks in cancun is comparable in effort or commitment to birthing and raising a child.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#103

Post by subsistence234 »

missedthecue wrote: post #67
bombcar wrote: post #9

This is so ridiculous that I assume it is intentional sabotage. Isn't the whole idea behind unionization that we can get beyond tipping? https://archive.ph/v1tpo >In addition to an overall raise, representatives from the store are asking Apple for higher pay over a larger slate of holidays, including the day after Thanksgiving. The union is also seeking to expand vacation pay and available time off based on years of…

The marginal cost of putting a tipping screen in the payment flow is close to zero. If one person tips for the whole year, it's pure profit. Yes, it might annoy customers, but I have a hard time buying the idea that people will go buy a Samsung phone because Apple stores ask for a tip. I've seen online checkout pages for e-commerce stores asking for tips now. Not even for custom products or commissioned art or anythi…

The marginal benefit of putting a tipping screen in the payment flow is close to zero. If one person during the whole year avoids the creepy store that demands tips, it's pure loss.

(iphones can be purchased online, btw)

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#104

Post by George83728 »

aspectmin wrote: post #66
George83728 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not like that. The institution of tipping waitresses is baked into the minimum wage laws for waitresses, that's why you're a monster if you refuse to tip them. In all other circumstances it's considered optional in exchange for particularly good service (barbers, taxi drivers). Cashiers working behind a counter get at least the normal minimum wage. It is not considered socially obligatory to tip them. And ti…

But that's not really true. Across Canada and the US there is intense social pressure - especially with the person taking the transaction watching one tip. I fell for this for a long time, but gave up after the local corner stores all started adding tips. You can see the annoyed looks, even though - for some I asked if they even see the tips and was told no - it goes to the company. After that I gave up and no longer…

> intense social pressure [...] annoyed looks

That's just... not intense social pressure. That's the least intense social pressure I can imagine.

Refusing to tip a waitress will very likely subject you to intense social pressure; your own friends and family will likely berate you for it on the spot. They'll tell you that you're an asshole and may refuse to eat with you in the future if you establish a pattern of refusing to tip waitresses. The waitress might even dox you on social media for it, and in the past before social media, they might chase you into the parking lot to loudly tell you that you're an asshole taking food from their children's mouths. The manager might chase you down to ask if something was wrong with the service, or tell you that you aren't welcome back.

Refusing to leave money in a tip jar is nothing like that, nobody says a thing. The most you'll ever get is a surly look from the person behind the counter and in all likelihood their poor attitude that day had nothing to do with you. They do work in retail after all, they have a hundred other reasons to be in a bad mood that have nothing to do with you. Follow the golden rule and be courteous to them, but don't let them walk all over you. If they glare at you, just take it in stride; they don't have American culture or customs on their side. Waitresses do.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#105

Post by George83728 »

pb7 wrote: post #65
George83728 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not like that. The institution of tipping waitresses is baked into the minimum wage laws for waitresses, that's why you're a monster if you refuse to tip them. In all other circumstances it's considered optional in exchange for particularly good service (barbers, taxi drivers). Cashiers working behind a counter get at least the normal minimum wage. It is not considered socially obligatory to tip them. And ti…

Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington all have the same minimum wage for both tipped and non-tipped employees. Unsurprisingly, people see you as no less of a monster if you don't tip there.

I think the culture of tipping waitresses persists in those states because these are relatively new laws and don't apply in most parts of the country.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#106

Post by George83728 »

jareds wrote: post #62
George83728 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current POS systems that ask for a minimum of 20%. My rule is to only ever tip with cash and only then directly into the hands of the worker. Tipping through a computer system is a scam, the business owner almost certainly takes most of it. If you're paying with a credit card, X out the tip field and leave cash instead. And of course, never tip in cases where it isn't customary to tip. Waitresses, bartenders, b…

Do we know if there serious about this? I'd hope the union negotiators would realize there was likely to be a backlash to this and put out this request as a bargaining point they won't fight very hard for.

It's so far beyond the pale, I earnestly believe they've likely been set up to look ridiculous. They've probably been fed this horrible idea by Apple, or a covert union buster (Pinkertons, etc) hired by Apple. To ask for tips makes the union look completely unreasonable and out of touch, which is good for Apple.

If they were doing as you say, asking for something they're unlikely to get as a negotiation tactic, they should have asked for commissions. Salesmen getting commissions would be perceived as completely reasonable. It degrade the customer experience by making the salesmen pushier, but commission for salesmen is totally conventional while tips for salesmen is pants-on-head dumb and bizarre.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#107

Post by dev_tty01 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #68
pb7 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping on electronics purchases is deranged.

I wonder if the tipping system is envisioned for Genius Bar work, which is more like a specialist consulting service rather than purchasing merchandise.

It is their job. They are not private consultants. Like others have said, if the pay is too low, they should focus on that. Genius bar service is a free perk for customers. There is no payment for most of those interactions so adding a tip would create a whole new payment flow and make the whole experience much less customer centric. It would be a serious detriment to the Apple Store experience for customers. They must know there is zero chance Apple would agree to this, so it must be a toss-in as something the negotiators can 'give up' in a fake show of good faith.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#108

Post by dev_tty01 »

a13o wrote: post #46

This is a great negotiation tactic by the union. Tipping would be anti-thematic to the whole Star Trek utopia vibe the Apple Store is going for. They of course know that, so asking Apple for this opens a door on deeper salary negotiations. It also makes great clickbait!

It is such a transparent move that it comes across as amateur hour negotiating in bad faith. That will not help their cause.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#110

Post by frumper »

George83728 wrote: post #105
pb7 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Washington all have the same minimum wage for both tipped and non-tipped employees. Unsurprisingly, people see you as no less of a monster if you don't tip there.

I think the culture of tipping waitresses persists in those states because these are relatively new laws and don't apply in most parts of the country.

I’m not sure California has ever had a tipped minimum wage that was lower, but not in the past 3 decades at least.
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