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Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

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Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#751
post #294

The paragraph in the section, "What are passkeys?" tells me that they: are new, are easier, let me use biometrics, and are resistant to attacks. But, it doesn't tell me what passkeys actually are. Compare passkeys to traditional authentication factors. What's a password? A secret word or phrase that only you know. What are biometrics? Parts of your body that can help uniquely identify you, like your fingerprint or re…

> What's a password? A secret word or phrase that only you know. No, a password is a secret word for phrase that both you and the service you want to sign into know. I don't know how to explain a passkey but at least in this one sense, a passkey is split into a public and private part. The public part is shared, the private part is not. The public part can be verified to match the private part without sharing the pri…

> a secret word for phrase that both you and the service you want to sign into know

That would not be a password, that would be something you share. An actual password must be possible to verify without it being stored on any device. On the service side, it's the same as for certificates, as you describe. The service can't store the password because that would invalidate it's usefulness as a way to prove someone is who they say they are. This is why we store a cryptographically secure hash code instead. It is also why the password hash code must be generated on the user's end, not on the service side. You never want to "transmit" passwords in plain text because transmission across the internet is an act of making copies of the data transmitted in the memory and storage of all the devices it transmits across. The moment you send a password across the internet, it is compromised.

So as the service, you don't know the password, you only know that the hash code you received matches the one for that user, and you are reasonably certain that there is no known way for someone to generate that hash code without knowing the real password. Therefore the person trying to login in must be who they say they are.

Passwords and private keys only work as authentication if no one else knows it, has possession of it, or can get access to it. If there is a flaw in any one of those aspects, then the system doesn't actually prove a person is who they claim to be. It only proves that a person is someone who knows, possesses, or has access to that thing. That might still count as evidence that they are authentic, but more will still be needed to actually prove they are authentic.

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#752

On my website, I'm doing authentication via simple public key authentication using Coze. No passwords. No email. No Google. Just public key authentication with private keys in possession of the user. https://github.com/Cyphrme/Coze

I've always expected end users would struggle to manage private keys. What sort of users does your website have?

Sorry for the delay. I didn't want too many eyeballs on it yet.

https://cyphr.me/wallet?power

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every platform/ecosystem you are using (Chrome, Apple iCloud), you had to create a new passkey. For people using multiple different devices and platforms, this is a headache. I want to sign up once and be done with it.

> I want to sign up once and be done with it. Definitely! My understanding is that this is where passkey/password managers enter the picture. My preferred password manager is 1Password, so once it gets passkey support I imagine I'll use that for everything. Until then, I'm depending on the limited sync functionality in iOS/macOS and Chrome.

Agreed. If mobile operating systems allow password managers to support Passkeys, and password managers implement the functionality, then I will absolutely switch.

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's like a private key but you can't access or manage it, as it's owned by Google/Apple/Microsoft? How convenient!

Passkey is an open standard, clients are not limited to Android or IOS devices. You can for example use a Yubikey, on a Linux desktop system, to authenticate to services implementing the "passkey" standard. Does Google own my Yubikey in some way that I'm unaware of? Nothing is owned by Google or Apple or Microsoft, there is no grand conspiracy trying to lock you into a platform. Try educating yourself before spreadin…

[deleted]

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's like a private key but you can't access or manage it, as it's owned by Google/Apple/Microsoft? How convenient!

Passkey is an open standard, clients are not limited to Android or IOS devices. You can for example use a Yubikey, on a Linux desktop system, to authenticate to services implementing the "passkey" standard. Does Google own my Yubikey in some way that I'm unaware of? Nothing is owned by Google or Apple or Microsoft, there is no grand conspiracy trying to lock you into a platform. Try educating yourself before spreadin…

[deleted]

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#756

I’m a Linux user. I don’t have an android/iOS/macOS/Windows machine. Is there a solution? Is this being used to push Linux users off the internet? Can I just fire up emulated Android and be ok? Am I screwed? Googling indicates I am, indeed, screwed. Pretty concerned about this future.

Passkey is an open standard and there exists FOSS clients which support it. We should try actually understanding and learning about what's going on instead of assuming that it's a Google conspiracy to kill Linux. (google contributes heavily to linux anyways?)

[deleted]

Re: Passkeys: The beginning of the end of the password

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's like a private key but you can't access or manage it, as it's owned by Google/Apple/Microsoft? How convenient!

Passkey is an open standard, clients are not limited to Android or IOS devices. You can for example use a Yubikey, on a Linux desktop system, to authenticate to services implementing the "passkey" standard. Does Google own my Yubikey in some way that I'm unaware of? Nothing is owned by Google or Apple or Microsoft, there is no grand conspiracy trying to lock you into a platform. Try educating yourself before spreadin…

Nothing that you said prevents vendor lock-in. If my private keys are stored are in a Secure Enclave, I can’t copy them to a FOSS client or a Yubikey.

The list of members of the FIDO alliance is public. It includes several companies that most people refer to as “big tech”.

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