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EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#11

Post by nradov »

iruoy wrote: post #5
Bran_son wrote: post #4

> Justifying the move earlier this year, Christianne van der Wal, minister of nature and nitrogen policy, said that the Netherlands had to cut nitrogen emissions from farms to build new housing and produce green energy. Closing farms to build more housing seems backwards. Where will the food to feed the people in that new housing come from? Per square meter, the total nitrogen/CO2 impact of a house+inhabitants is cer…

The Netherlands is the second largest food exporter in the world. And we are a small nation. Farms account for over half of all nitrogen emissions though. We need to make some sacrifes. Just like we did in all other sectors already. At the moment highway speeds have been lowered nationwide, building permits can't be given out and more. This is crippling a lot of sectors right now.

Actually the Netherlands is only the sixth largest food exporter in the world.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-american-food-giant-...

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#12

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

If I was into conspiracy theories, I might think that this is part of a vast conspiracy to make Europe more dependent on the US.

1. Europe closes its nuclear power plants

2. Sanctions on Russia and Russian pipeline blows up

3. Ukraine - bread basket of Europe reduced to rubble

4. Netherlands - massive food exporter - decides to give up farming.

So Europe becomes massively dependent on US for food and energy.

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#13

Post by nradov »

Teever wrote: post #10
Bran_son wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Netherlands is the second largest food exporter in the world. Irrelevant. People and housing are bigger net burdens on the environment than farms. Their location relative to human political boundaries doesn't change that. They certainly take that into account when calculating e.g. consumption-based CO2 emissions: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

So what are you suggesting exactly, that the Dutch ban having children and expand their farms on the reclaimed residential land? Keep in mind that they are severely bottlenecked by land, so they can't do both.

Another option would be to reduce the immigration rate. I'm not Dutch and it's not my place to tell them what to do, but you're presenting a false choice. Their fertility rate is already below replacement.

https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/dossier/migration-and-integration/h...

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#14

Post by hezralig »

scohesc wrote: post #9
iruoy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands is the second largest food exporter in the world. And we are a small nation. Farms account for over half of all nitrogen emissions though. We need to make some sacrifes. Just like we did in all other sectors already. At the moment highway speeds have been lowered nationwide, building permits can't be given out and more. This is crippling a lot of sectors right now.

That sounds so short-sighted. Food is arguably the second most crucial resource on earth next to fresh water for humans to exist, and the country is choosing to kneecap food production instead of developing new farming technologies to limit nitrogen emissions? It doesn't seem like the "sacrifice" that our political elites are choosing to make is worth it. Seems like we're setting up future generations (or sooner, our…

Hi, I am curious if this diatribe is based on the knowledge of the ratio of food production to Dutch population. Are you aware of how much food NL exports when thinking about the decision making of the aforementioned powerful elites?

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#15

Post by scohesc »

hezralig wrote: post #14
scohesc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds so short-sighted. Food is arguably the second most crucial resource on earth next to fresh water for humans to exist, and the country is choosing to kneecap food production instead of developing new farming technologies to limit nitrogen emissions? It doesn't seem like the "sacrifice" that our political elites are choosing to make is worth it. Seems like we're setting up future generations (or sooner, our…

Hi, I am curious if this diatribe is based on the knowledge of the ratio of food production to Dutch population. Are you aware of how much food NL exports when thinking about the decision making of the aforementioned powerful elites?

Hey,

I wouldn't consider it diatribe - just general observations.

I don't know exactly how much food is exported, I don't know how much nitrogen is emitted. Neither does anybody else unless they pay for access to the article or look it up in external sources, let alone be educated enough to interpret the data.

I know that there's people starving right now in third world countries due to lack of supply or high cost of food. There's also a rising number of people starving in first world countries that can't afford to eat or are relying on food banks.

There's an active conflict in a country that exports large amounts of grain for world consumption.

It just seems very short-sighted to cut back on food production when there's likely other ways to limit nitrogen emissions - in any capacity.

I'm coming from a western American/Canadian background of politics, where a majority of our representatives almost completely align with corporate interests instead of the individual.

Maybe things are different in the Netherlands.

I would hope that generational farming knowledge doesn't get lost by buying out these farmers. I don't like how governments have the power/rights to buy-out farmers and their land (at least, that's what I'm assuming, because I can't read the article, and it's similar to what's been proposed in other countries looking at pushing similar ideas).

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#16

Post by Bran_son »

hezralig wrote: post #14
scohesc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds so short-sighted. Food is arguably the second most crucial resource on earth next to fresh water for humans to exist, and the country is choosing to kneecap food production instead of developing new farming technologies to limit nitrogen emissions? It doesn't seem like the "sacrifice" that our political elites are choosing to make is worth it. Seems like we're setting up future generations (or sooner, our…

Hi, I am curious if this diatribe is based on the knowledge of the ratio of food production to Dutch population. Are you aware of how much food NL exports when thinking about the decision making of the aforementioned powerful elites?

Exported food is eaten, not burned. Hunger won't stop at borders - it's how the war in Ukraine is making food everywhere more expensive.

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#19

Post by Dig1t »

iruoy wrote: post #5
Bran_son wrote: post #4

> Justifying the move earlier this year, Christianne van der Wal, minister of nature and nitrogen policy, said that the Netherlands had to cut nitrogen emissions from farms to build new housing and produce green energy. Closing farms to build more housing seems backwards. Where will the food to feed the people in that new housing come from? Per square meter, the total nitrogen/CO2 impact of a house+inhabitants is cer…

The Netherlands is the second largest food exporter in the world. And we are a small nation. Farms account for over half of all nitrogen emissions though. We need to make some sacrifes. Just like we did in all other sectors already. At the moment highway speeds have been lowered nationwide, building permits can't be given out and more. This is crippling a lot of sectors right now.

Why does the Netherlands have to make such deep sacrifices?

Re: EU approves controversial Dutch farm buy-out plan to meet climate goals

#20

Post by diogocp »

iruoy wrote: post #5
Bran_son wrote: post #4

> Justifying the move earlier this year, Christianne van der Wal, minister of nature and nitrogen policy, said that the Netherlands had to cut nitrogen emissions from farms to build new housing and produce green energy. Closing farms to build more housing seems backwards. Where will the food to feed the people in that new housing come from? Per square meter, the total nitrogen/CO2 impact of a house+inhabitants is cer…

The Netherlands is the second largest food exporter in the world. And we are a small nation. Farms account for over half of all nitrogen emissions though. We need to make some sacrifes. Just like we did in all other sectors already. At the moment highway speeds have been lowered nationwide, building permits can't be given out and more. This is crippling a lot of sectors right now.

I don't understand the reasoning here. People still need to eat, so that food will still be grown—somewhere else—and the nitrogen will still be emitted—somewhere else.

So the net impact on global nitrogen emissions should be zero.

It seems to me that all this is doing is making some poorly thought-out national emissions statistics/targets look better.

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