Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 119 posts

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#91

Post by whimsicalism »

anigbrowl wrote: post #72
whimsicalism wrote: post #27

Organizing against a company like Apple is pretty much exclusively about how you can leverage media attention to get concessions. Apple has no problem locking you out and replacing, except for the negative media & consequential consumer impact. So it seems like it would make sense to ask for things that the customer would actually like/be okay with, like basic higher pay, some sort of seniority structure maybe, etc.

Agreed, but it does not make sense to add in absurd/burner requests and then attract all kinds of bad PR for your previously serious negotiating effort.

Right, which was my point

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#92

Post by zassy »

flandish wrote: post #86
no_wizard wrote: post #16

I am shocked a labor union is okay with tipping as a mechanism of compensation. Its antithetical to their own goals usually, let alone Apple is not going to take kind to this. Tipping is out of control as it is, at least in the US. Where does it stop I have to wonder. Lets just keep the fight about fair wages, benefits and working conditions first and foremost. This feels like its waiting for public backlash

Why are you shocked? Starbucks employees have formed unions and tipping is still allowed. Wanting tipping is a signal that pay is not high enough - you see it here, with the reactions. A deeper look might reveal they could be paid more. Just like Starbucks employees.

That’s a bad read. Wanting tips is a sign that they want more money, not that they’re not being paid enough.

I knew a tattoo artist that owned his own shop and made well over six digits in a town where the average income is barely 30k and he would bitch all the time about “getting stiffed” on tips whenever he did tattoos.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#93

Post by pb7 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #88
pb7 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because complaints about tips are bald-faced lies. Tipped employees make much more with tips than they would otherwise, doubly so because cash tips are chronically unreported to the IRS. Income numbers are skewed across the board because the US's service industry participates in blatant tax evasion.

I think tipping is an archaic Americanism that should be replaced by living wages or family wages, as much as anyone. But, oh no, not tax irregularities from service workers .

>tax irregularities

Tax evasion*

Taxes are already progressive. You don't get to decide what you pay or don't pay, it's already incredibly little.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#94

Post by zassy »

sky_rw wrote: post #22
macintux wrote: post #3

John Gruber’s take: > But this tipping proposal is so antithetical to Apple’s customer-first retail experience that it feels like a joke, or that the union negotiators have never even been in an Apple Store. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/04/apple-store-mar...

He equates it to vaping. I'd take an employee blowing clouds of raspberry smoke in my face over 22% tip on a Macbook any day.

To ensure the livelihood of our geniuses in these trying times we’ve added an automatic gratuity of 18% for all orders over $200.

Thank you for your understanding.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#95

Post by xracy »

This is a little sus to me.

I'd be surprised if the actual end-goal of the union was getting tips.

> Workers at Apple Inc.’s unionized store in Maryland are asking for higher pay and additional time off, along with changes that could affect the company’s tightly controlled retail experience, such as letting customers tip employees.

That right there is giving this as an example, and not as the actual thing they want. I'm wondering if the narrative on this might've been editorialized. It would be more reasonable to me if someone had mentioned this in a general brainstorming session, and it wasn't an actual explicit goal of the union.

"give me a pay raise, if you can't give it to me from your budget you could add tips"

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#96

Post by gautamdivgi »

Apocryphon wrote: post #69
gautamdivgi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is tipping needed for a union negotiated salary? Ideally we need to move away from tipping. It’s like a hidden tax everyone needs to pay. They’re supposed to be union so they can negotiate a fair wage. I do not like this descent into the tipping space.

It’s fine to be so vehemently opposed to it on principle, but thanks to technologies like Square, Clover, etc., tipping is easier than ever. It has become a completely mainstream aspect of the shopping experience. Blame it on those payment providers. So in practice, building a tipping screen into the payment system is as seamless as Apple Pay and for most customers will not amount to anything more than perhaps a mome…

I'm opposed to tipping on principle. I understand it when workers are not organized and have no recourse to fair wage but have to turn to tips. I cannot understand it for a union shop. Negotiate a fair wage and say no to tipping dark patterns in society. I really don't care "how technologically easy" it is. That is just exacerbating the problem.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#97

Post by anigbrowl »

whimsicalism wrote: post #91
anigbrowl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but it does not make sense to add in absurd/burner requests and then attract all kinds of bad PR for your previously serious negotiating effort.

Right, which was my point

Oh, I thought you meant they threw this in to get media attention for their struggle. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#98

Post by Apocryphon »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #96
Apocryphon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fine to be so vehemently opposed to it on principle, but thanks to technologies like Square, Clover, etc., tipping is easier than ever. It has become a completely mainstream aspect of the shopping experience. Blame it on those payment providers. So in practice, building a tipping screen into the payment system is as seamless as Apple Pay and for most customers will not amount to anything more than perhaps a mome…

I'm opposed to tipping on principle. I understand it when workers are not organized and have no recourse to fair wage but have to turn to tips. I cannot understand it for a union shop. Negotiate a fair wage and say no to tipping dark patterns in society. I really don't care "how technologically easy" it is. That is just exacerbating the problem.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just saying the tech has enabled it to be ubiquitous. And when that happens, you’re going to get bloat all over the payment process- if it’s not tipping screens, it’s supermarket POS systems asking you to donate to random charities. At some point you need to take it as less of a moral social affront and just screen it out.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#99

Post by warkdarrior »

t-writescode wrote: post #76
bombcar wrote: post #9

This is so ridiculous that I assume it is intentional sabotage. Isn't the whole idea behind unionization that we can get beyond tipping? https://archive.ph/v1tpo >In addition to an overall raise, representatives from the store are asking Apple for higher pay over a larger slate of holidays, including the day after Thanksgiving. The union is also seeking to expand vacation pay and available time off based on years of…

> 45 days a year for pet bereavement? If it includes goldfish, I'm in! This is a bad read of this. While 45 days is ... huge, the inclusion of pets and friends is almost certainly a result of companies who refuse to let anyone grieve when their friend dies. As someone who has lost _way too many_ people in the last 18 months and only 1 of them being immediate family, having those others considered not worth mourning a…

Sorry for your losses. On the other hand, if my employer offered 45 days of paid time off under certain conditions, I'd do my best to maximize that benefit.

Re: Apple’s Unionized Store Wants to Start Accepting Tips from Customers

#100

Post by bombcar »

warkdarrior wrote: post #99
t-writescode wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 45 days a year for pet bereavement? If it includes goldfish, I'm in! This is a bad read of this. While 45 days is ... huge, the inclusion of pets and friends is almost certainly a result of companies who refuse to let anyone grieve when their friend dies. As someone who has lost _way too many_ people in the last 18 months and only 1 of them being immediate family, having those others considered not worth mourning a…

Sorry for your losses. On the other hand, if my employer offered 45 days of paid time off under certain conditions, I'd do my best to maximize that benefit.

There's an argument on either side - many companies/employers offer 6 months paid parental leave after a child is born (for both parents), but I haven't seen many people maximizing that benefit by having a child every 12 months.
Post reply on HN