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Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

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Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#81

Post by aaomidi »

haswell wrote: post #62
neom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if it was a google employee who committed suicide at home, or off of the various many other places you could chose to kill yourself in Manhattan, I'd generally agree. This person however, jumped off their employers office building.

> This person however, jumped off their employers office building. Why does this indicate anything other than the fact that he chose a building he’s familiar with and to which he had access? What if their personal life was not in good shape and they wanted someone to find them? There is no basis at this point for speculation that Google was a primary causal factor.

The timing of the layoffs, etc. yes there is room for speculation. There’s always room for speculation.

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#82

Post by [deleted] »

pengaru wrote: post #36
bhouston wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant. EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify m…

> Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t really significant. How many of those 13/100,000/year have jobs?

[deleted]

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#83

Post by skyyler »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #48
lnsru wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full back to the office? I am experiencing it right now and honestly hate it. After work in quiet room alone for couple years I am forced to sit with another 11 individuals in open office. My mental state is really bad. There is only one solution - find new job. I even don’t care anymore about my stocks vesting in autumn.

Poor taste to use this as a platform for your back to office complaints.

Are you tone deaf? The comment you’re replying to is softly stating that going back into the office is making them feel suicidal.

This is a perfect venue to discuss that…

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#84

Post by haswell »

ziziyO wrote: post #77
haswell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this a pretty obvious connection vs. just the pragmatic reality of having access to the Google building? The factors that play into suicide are numerous, and there is no apparent reason that Google was a causal factor. This is also not to say that they aren’t, but to point out that speculation about this has zero standing.

A worker kills himself at work by jumping off a work building and you are here trying to tell me speculation about work being involved has zero standing? I don't buy it.

It has no more standing than speculating that the suicide was related to a failed relationship with a coworker. And even in that case, a failed relationship is not usually the cause of suicide, even if it's a precipitating factor. Causes generally tie back to systemic issues.

Of all the ways one can die, suicide stems from the most deeply complex and systemic factors in one's life. To sit here and speculate about the cause with no information is irresponsible and I'd argue at the heart of what's wrong with social media today. For some reason people feel the need to have answers, even poorly considered speculation. I'd argue that it's far better to be willing to accept that there are times that require us to just withhold speculation until there's enough information to do so responsibly.

Whatever the cause turns out to be, these early discussions are the last contact most people will have with the topic, meaning whatever speculations are shared are likely to be the primary memories of those involved.

This community is quick to demand evidence and citations on most subjects (and rightly so), and this should be no different.

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#85

Post by haswell »

aaomidi wrote: post #81
haswell wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This person however, jumped off their employers office building. Why does this indicate anything other than the fact that he chose a building he’s familiar with and to which he had access? What if their personal life was not in good shape and they wanted someone to find them? There is no basis at this point for speculation that Google was a primary causal factor.

The timing of the layoffs, etc. yes there is room for speculation. There’s always room for speculation.

Sure, there's always "room" for speculation, and someone will always speculate. But that doesn't give this speculation any basis nor should it excuse irresponsible dialogue that seeks to generate answers for the sake of answers instead of accuracy and real information. There's a time during which such speculation is straight up irresponsible. It fuels narratives and feeds anger for reasons that can't be justified with data.

Layoffs are happening across industries. Are you suggesting that there is something specific about the way Google did theirs?

Suicides are higher across all demographics right now, and there's a pretty clear emerging consensus that there's a growing mental health crisis, and that it's not tied to a single employer.

Does this mean that Google had nothing to do with it? We don't know. But for anyone suggesting a connection, at least provide a plausible reason the connection exists, how it explains this scenario, and why that explanation is specific to Google. Otherwise why would such speculation provide any value?

The HN community is pretty good about demanding evidence and eschewing simplistic narratives that have no evidence to back them. Suicide is a tragic subject that evokes emotional responses, but that does not excuse baseless speculation.

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#86

Post by klipklop »

tempsy wrote: post #14
darth_avocado wrote: post #12

Such a sad news. It’s really tragic someone go through this. I know the incident could be unrelated but it is also a good reminder the human cost of decisions. The fed taking decisions for the economy, companies taking decisions to maximize shareholder value and ceo pay, etc. all have huge impact on people’s lives, some of it is visible, while some of it is not.

The article says no note, no video, and they found handprints. This was nearly midnight at an outdoor terrace in the office. I guess I don’t see how anyone can say he “jumped” on purpose yet when at some point he must’ve been hanging which could have been a result of tripping on something.

You keep posting this same point over and over in this thread. This “oops he tripped” variant is in really bad taste.

You pan the article for going beyond the facts we know at this time and then come up with your own unfounded speculation…

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#87

Post by lotsofpulp »

Atlas22 wrote: post #63
justrealist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some extremes, this is false, right? What about someone becoming an astronaut? Getting elected president? Be cautious who you cede your identity to, but it's OK to be genuinely excited about some career outcomes.

No, its perfectly fine to reach goals or ones you've had for most of your life, but its absolutely crucial that you make new goals to work towards. Its the same if you give up or change your mind about a goal, it has to be replaced. From what I've heard (not my expertise) the brain chemistry primarily rewards the pursuit, not as much the outcome. I've been there a few times myself after both achieving and deciding to…

I have always held multiple answers to "what is my life's purpose".

On a universal level, there is no purpose.

On a global level, there is probably no purpose.

On a societal level, maybe you can do something to help , if that makes you happy.

On a familial level, people usually feel good interacting with family/friends, so the purpose could be to keep those feelings going.

Up to the individual to play the game or not play the game, no right or wrong answer. But if you are tying your happiness to expectations of being able to cause grand changes at the universal/global/even societal level, then you will probably be disappointed. Everyone's existence is almost certainly meaningless in the "big" picture.

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#88

Post by bhouston »

protonimitate wrote: post #27
bhouston wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant. EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify m…

Suicide is tragic regardless of the circumstances, and it's a really bad take to try to minimize this because it's not statistically "significant" or "clickbait".

I agree that suicide is tragic and we shouldn't minimize any instance of someone taking their own life.

I was trying to say that linking it to Google and implying it is a trend based on just two suicides given their extremely large employee count isn't statistically sound without additional supporting data. I was speaking about the link to Google rather than the suicides themselves.

Re: Google engineer jumps to death in NYC, second worker suicide in months

#90

Post by jckr »

bhouston wrote: post #21
protonimitate wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An employee of Google who jumped from the Google office is a pretty obvious connection. Don't really see how this is clickbait.

Google employs 200,000 people. Suicide rate in the US is ~13 per 100,000 per year. This means there is an expected base rate of Google employees committing suicide per year regardless of working conditions that is likely higher than just 2. Maybe there is a real issue but two suicides within such large number of employees isn’t statistically significant. EDIT: I added "statistically" in the last sentence to clarify m…

If you want to have a meaningful comparison, then compare Google’s suicide rates with those of people in their thirties, gainfully employed / making six figures and have free access to mental health resources.
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