Live data from Hacker News

Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

thestar.com

41–50 of 254 posts

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#41

If this has an 80% success rate we could give loans to the homeless so they can buy a house and price that success rate into the interest rate.

Homeless sweeps in many places in the US result in about 1 in 200 accepting help and the rest telling you to go procreate with yourself. Most by far prefer living in a place where normal rules don't apply. Loans would not be recovered - it would be a grant to allow them to continue living the way they choose.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#42
post #23

I lived in Finland for a while. Being homeless in that country is pretty hard core in the winter. Which is a reason that sheltering people there is not a nice to have; you either shelter them or you collect their dead bodies in the morning. It's that simple. Places like Helsinki never had a large community of homeless people to begin with (natural selection). But it has plenty of social issues of course. Alcoholism i…

"simply providing proper housing to these people is a pragmatic alternative" Did this "proper housing" come with any rules? What is the bar that keeps the homeless from being evicted? I know where I am these places quickly become severe crime hubs.

It definitely requires a lot of support, especially initially, to be successful; indeed, just providing the residence isn't enough. And of course not all homeless people are the same. Some are simply having a rough time and really do just need that leg up. Others are struggling with substance abuse, mental illness, or mental or physical disability, and will at a minimum need support to transition to a stable living situation, but may become self-sufficient (or at least more-so) over time with that support. Others will need significant ongoing support lifelong, and so independent living won't be a viable option. Lumping all these people together exacerbates problems.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#43
post #23

I lived in Finland for a while. Being homeless in that country is pretty hard core in the winter. Which is a reason that sheltering people there is not a nice to have; you either shelter them or you collect their dead bodies in the morning. It's that simple. Places like Helsinki never had a large community of homeless people to begin with (natural selection). But it has plenty of social issues of course. Alcoholism i…

"simply providing proper housing to these people is a pragmatic alternative" Did this "proper housing" come with any rules? What is the bar that keeps the homeless from being evicted? I know where I am these places quickly become severe crime hubs.

The houses which are given to homeless are mostly concentrated in certain area's. So if they cause problems, which of course they do, they don't bother 'normal' families.

Those area's are pretty bad, but they're not as dangerous as e.g. in the US. I guess it's because the addicts are mostly alcoholics and they get just enough government money to buy their daily booze.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#44
post #16

The city of San Francisco spends $70,000 annually per homeless person! https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci... > The homeless there are homeless because severe mental and addiction issues cause them to reject help, not because resources aren't available.

How effectively is that money spent? My cynical assumption would be that most of the money goes into employing political allies of the city of San Francisco.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#45

Does Finland have a problem with Mexican cartel meth and fentanyl being dumped by the truckloads into its communities? To be clear, there are many types of homeless in the US. But the ones that get the most attention and seem to cause the most problems are those pushed into mental illness by drug use. And, yes, drug use does not always cause mental illness and many mentally ill are not on drugs, but as those of us wi…

[deleted]

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#46
post #28

If this has an 80% success rate we could give loans to the homeless so they can buy a house and price that success rate into the interest rate.

That won't magically make enough housing appear on the market. Many of the major cities where jobs can be found have a chronic shortage of housing, at all levels of value. We need to build housing like there's a WAR effort, like there's an actual battle against homelessness by building enough homes for everyone who wants to live in an area. NIMBY and 'sense of character' are the major issues that prevent this, along…

This won’t happen under current state of capitalistic systems. No-one will fund this for sole purpose of public good.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both are valid points: Finland has less inhabitants than London and besides maybe from Swedes, Russians and Lapps no large minority groups, of which the aforementioned most likely don’t instill ambiguity about how they obtained their citizenship and why. Studies show that homogenous countries have less objections to social welfare programs aka income redistribution [0]. [0] https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org…

What does size have to do with anything? Nobody's saying you spend the same amount or provide the same number of houses - you can scale it up to meet the larger population eh?

Of course size matters. Finland’s homelessness likely coalesces around its largest urban areas, as they provide the most foot traffic and anonymity (and homeless services) with the least annoyed population. Like in every country.

So most likely Helsinki.

If your pool of possible homeless is 5M and they gather in a city the size of 600k it is a hugely different situation than say San Francisco, which is 800k and draws from 330M possible homeless

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#48
post #44
post #16

The city of San Francisco spends $70,000 annually per homeless person! https://abc7news.com/sf-homeless-plan-housing-all-san-franci... > The homeless there are homeless because severe mental and addiction issues cause them to reject help, not because resources aren't available.

How effectively is that money spent? My cynical assumption would be that most of the money goes into employing political allies of the city of San Francisco.

Seems to work well in NYC

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/nyregion/the-homeless-she...

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#49

I lived in Finland for a while. Being homeless in that country is pretty hard core in the winter. Which is a reason that sheltering people there is not a nice to have; you either shelter them or you collect their dead bodies in the morning. It's that simple. Places like Helsinki never had a large community of homeless people to begin with (natural selection). But it has plenty of social issues of course. Alcoholism i…

> I lived in Finland for a while. Being homeless in that country is pretty hard core in the winter. Which is a reason that sheltering people there is not a nice to have; you either shelter them or you collect their dead bodies in the morning. It's that simple.

Unfortunately there are any number of people who would be happy with option B in this scenario.

Re: Given a place to live, Finland’s homeless were better able to deal with problems

#50

Does Finland have a problem with Mexican cartel meth and fentanyl being dumped by the truckloads into its communities? To be clear, there are many types of homeless in the US. But the ones that get the most attention and seem to cause the most problems are those pushed into mental illness by drug use. And, yes, drug use does not always cause mental illness and many mentally ill are not on drugs, but as those of us wi…

Yes, most of the homelessness in Finland is driven by substance abuse and mental illness too.

It's mostly alcohol, amphetamines (meth included), buprenorfine and benzos from Eastern European organized crime and fentanyl is not as common, but the landscape is similar.

Post reply on HN