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Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

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581–590 of 1001 posts

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#581
This is so indicative of Google culture missing the point. The idea of spending $10M training a single model is treated as a casual reality. But “tHaNk GoOdNeSs those generous open source people published their HiGh QuAlItY datasets of ten thousand examples each. Otherwise we’d have no way of creating datasets like that…” :| the sustainable competitive advantage has been and will continue to be HUGE PROPRIETARY DATASETS. (Duh - this is as true for new AI as it was for old AI = ad targeting). It was the _query+click pairs_ that kept Google dominant all these years, not the brilliant engineers. They had all of humanity labeling the entire internet with “when I click on this page/ad for this query I do/don’t search again” a billion+ times a day for a decade. For good measure they’ve also been collecting your email, your calendar, and your browsing habits for nearly as long. The fact that they’ve managed to erase that historic advantage from their collective consciousness (presumably because AI researchers would rather not spend time debugging data labeling UI) is strange to me. It at least deserves a mention in a strategy memo like this. Not vague platitudes about “influence through innovation.” Spend that $10M you were going to spend on a training run as $9.9999M on a private dataset, then the remaining $100 on training. Better still, build products that gets user behavior to train your models for you. Obviously.

We’re going to watch the biggest face plant in recent economic history if they can’t get this one together. I can’t decide if that makes me happy about an overdue changing of the guard in the Valley or sad about the fall of a once great company.

It’s not about the models! Model training is a commodity! It’s about the data! Come on guys.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#582
Man, I'm an admitted unabashed elitist when it comes to technology but this guy sounds warped.

> Many of the new ideas are from ordinary people.

ORLY?

> a third faction ... open source.

Open source is not a faction? It's people literally giving you the software they wrote, for free, for free! If you see them as the enemy because they hurt your profits... If the "ordinary people" are doing your job better than you can...

This piece make more sense as a false-flag character assassination of the clueless Google tech-bro? It reads like some radical leftist's caricature of the corporate/colonial mindset.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#583
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be the Open Source who is the real winner overall.. After OpenAI became basically ClosedAI it's an excellent news

I'm not sure? Placing ethics constraints on a company under a capitalist system is hard. Placing them on open source is impossible.

Whose ethics?

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#584

I have been toying around with Stable Diffusion for a while now and becoming comfortable with the enormous community filled with textual inversions , LoRAs , hyper networks and checkpoints . You can get things with names like “chill blend”, a fine-tuned model on top of the SD with the author’s personal style. There is something called automatic1111 which is a pretty comprehensive web UI for managing all these moving…

Local LLMs already have a UI intentionally similar to AUTOMATIC1111, including LoRAs, training with checkpoints, various extensions including multimodal and experimental long-term memory etc. https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui

Excellent! Impossible to keep up.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#585
post #81

The part of the post that resonates for me is that working with the open source community may allow a model to improve faster. And, whichever model improves faster, will win - if it can continue that pace of improvement. The author talks about Koala but notes that ChatGPT is better. GPT-4 is then significantly better than GPT-3.5. If you've used all the models and can afford to spend money, you'd be insane to not use…

GPT-4 is so much better for complex tasks that I wouldn't use anything else. Trying to get 3.5 to do anything complicated is like pulling teeth, and using something worse than 3.5... Oof. TBH this feels like cope from Google; Bard is embarrassingly bad and they expected to be able to compete with OpenAI. In my experience, despite their graph in the article that puts them ahead of Vicuna-13B, they're actually behind..…

> And you can't even use Bard as a developer, there's no API!

There is an API for the underlying model, it's just in alpha/beta/whatever they call limited invite-only release and you have to ask your devrel team to get access. I'm guessing we'll see better models very soon.

Google is, as usual, playing catch-up, but I have no doubt once the machine gets cranking they'll be fully competitive, at least similar to how GCP is now a totally viable AWS alternative. They never lead the pack because they can't (lawyers, regulation, monopoly, etc), but they know how to commit and execute.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#586
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's going to be seamlessly integrated into every-day software. I...kinda don't want this? UIs have already changed in so many different fits, starts, waves, and cycles. I used to have skills. But I have no skills now. Nothing works like it used to. Yeah they were tricky to use but I cannot imagine that a murky AI interface is going to be any easier to use, and certainly impossible to master. Even if it is easier t…

I once volunteered with a older woman. She’d been a computer programmer in the 70s, using punch cards and, later, Pascal. Then she had kids and stopped working for a while and the technology moved on without her. Now she’s like any other old person, doesn’t know how to use a computer and gets flustered when eg: trying to switch from the browser back to Word. Her kids and grandkids clown on her for being hopeless with…

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing this. I have a somewhat similar story with my failure to transition from paltformers / sidescrollers to 3D games. I just couldn't do it.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#587
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's going to be seamlessly integrated into every-day software. I...kinda don't want this? UIs have already changed in so many different fits, starts, waves, and cycles. I used to have skills. But I have no skills now. Nothing works like it used to. Yeah they were tricky to use but I cannot imagine that a murky AI interface is going to be any easier to use, and certainly impossible to master. Even if it is easier t…

It was a sad day when I realized I was systematically overinvesting in skills on churning technology and that my investments would never amortize. Suddenly my parents' stubborn unwillingness to bother learning anything technological made complete sense and I had to adjust my own patience threshold sharply downwards.

Maybe my time will come some day (I'm 32 years old), but I always tell myself that learning how to learn and being interested in new/different technology is how I keep myself updated. The latter is probably difficult to maintain, but this whole AI thing has given me a new pastime hobby I could never imagine.

Maybe I'll reject instead of embrace the next big thing once I'm old enough?

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#588
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's going to be seamlessly integrated into every-day software. I...kinda don't want this? UIs have already changed in so many different fits, starts, waves, and cycles. I used to have skills. But I have no skills now. Nothing works like it used to. Yeah they were tricky to use but I cannot imagine that a murky AI interface is going to be any easier to use, and certainly impossible to master. Even if it is easier t…

It was a sad day when I realized I was systematically overinvesting in skills on churning technology and that my investments would never amortize. Suddenly my parents' stubborn unwillingness to bother learning anything technological made complete sense and I had to adjust my own patience threshold sharply downwards.

I find focusing on fundamental tools and concepts like terminals and text mode editors like vi and emacs will pay off handsomely.

All the fancy dialogs will switch around every few years.

This mindset extends to stuff like Word. Whenever you do something think hard about the essence of what you’re doing. Realize this should have been a script, but due to constraints in reality you are forced to use some wanky GUI.

If you look at it like this, you won’t care the pixels move around. Your mental model will be solid and building that is 90% of the work.

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#589

I don't understand. ChatGPT cost an estimated 10s of millions ot train. ChatGPT 4.0 has much better performance than the next best model. Isn't that a moat?

Think of it as a time series. It cost 10s of millions to train but in 6 months gpt4 open source equivalents will cost 100$ to train. The best model is one that you can build on top of in a way that’s it’s not a black box (SD).

Re: Google “We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI”

#590

The current paradigm is that AI is a destination. A product you go to and interact with. That's not at all how the masses are going to interact with AI in the near future. It's going to be seamlessly integrated into every-day software. In Office/Google docs, at the operating system level (Android), in your graphics editor (Adobe), on major web platforms: search, image search, Youtube, the like. Since Google and other…

They'll catch up and will have the reach/subsidy advantage.

This is only true if they're making progress faster than OpenAI. There isn't much evidence for that.

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