The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#31

Post by Paul-Craft » Thu, May 04, 2023, 7:47 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #20

krapp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are unique in that they believe their government cowers in fear of the pistols they keep under their pillows, and that theirs is the only truly free nation in the world, where tyranny can never occur.

Correct. Where in reality if you brandish a gun at the authority for long enough, it eventually responds by dropping a bomb on your roof. (... we still remember it, Philadelphia).

> (... we still remember it, Philadelphia).

For those who don't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#32

Post by InitialLastName » Thu, May 04, 2023, 7:59 PM UTC

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #22

DFHippie wrote: post #6

Armed soldiers wheeled and fired en masse on unarmed protestors yet none of them faced legal penalty. The state of Ohio paid compensation. Because the soldiers "feared for their lives." I'm sure it was scary, but maybe we need braver national guardsmen. Official ass covering after official violence is a long tradition.

Unlike the rich and privileged college kids, the guardsmen had no choice in being there, nor did they have any choice about carrying loaded weapons.

Wow, if they were conscripted that makes the story even worse.

Even so, they had a choice about using the loaded weapons.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#33

Post by Animats » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:05 PM UTC

Today, a school shooting that only killed four people would barely make the news.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#34

Post by aschearer » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:06 PM UTC

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #22

DFHippie wrote: post #6

Armed soldiers wheeled and fired en masse on unarmed protestors yet none of them faced legal penalty. The state of Ohio paid compensation. Because the soldiers "feared for their lives." I'm sure it was scary, but maybe we need braver national guardsmen. Official ass covering after official violence is a long tradition.

Unlike the rich and privileged college kids, the guardsmen had no choice in being there, nor did they have any choice about carrying loaded weapons.

You could say they were just following orders.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#35

Post by aschearer » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:09 PM UTC

Some things never change.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#36

Post by DFHippie » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:16 PM UTC

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #22

DFHippie wrote: post #6

Armed soldiers wheeled and fired en masse on unarmed protestors yet none of them faced legal penalty. The state of Ohio paid compensation. Because the soldiers "feared for their lives." I'm sure it was scary, but maybe we need braver national guardsmen. Official ass covering after official violence is a long tradition.

Unlike the rich and privileged college kids, the guardsmen had no choice in being there, nor did they have any choice about carrying loaded weapons.

Sure they had a choice. They had a choice whether to aim at the sky, the ground, or the protestors. And they had the same choice the protestors were exercising: whether or not to obey the authority ordering them to do stuff. But they weren't ordered to fire on the protestors. The guardsmen who did shoot at the sky or the ground, which was most of them, weren't prosecuted for disobeying orders. The more important choice was the first. That's the one for which they should have been charged with murder.

P.S. How rich and privileged are kids who go to Kent State in Ohio? It's not Yale. In 1970 it was pretty cheap. And regardless, why does this justify the harm they suffered? The guardsmen were right to shoot the college kids because they weren't as rich or privileged? That's a really horrifying take on the event.

That's another long tradition: portraying the victims of lethal violence as unsympathetic in some way as though this mitigates the harm they suffered.

I assume most people reading Hacker News aren't at the bottom of the economic ladder. Does this make them fair game?

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#37

Post by jimbob45 » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:16 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #9

DFHippie wrote: post #6

Armed soldiers wheeled and fired en masse on unarmed protestors yet none of them faced legal penalty. The state of Ohio paid compensation. Because the soldiers "feared for their lives." I'm sure it was scary, but maybe we need braver national guardsmen. Official ass covering after official violence is a long tradition.

It's as american as apple pie to use state violence on innocent and largely peaceful protestors and then just pretend it's no big deal. Remember the time unmarked soldiers were pulling people off the street in Portland? Or when peaceful protestors were disbursed with force so the president could take a picture while holding a bible upsidedown? Or Waco. Or the battle of Blair Mountain. Or the Tulsa Race Massacre. Amer…

It's as american as apple pie to use state violence on innocent and largely peaceful protestors and then just pretend it's no big deal

You have it backwards. We manipulate the police into attacking and then pretend to be victims. See: Boston Massacre, BLM 2020, 2021 Capital Protests

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#38

Post by mikestew » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:24 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #33

Today, a school shooting that only killed four people would barely make the news.

It would if it were the cops doing the shooting, as is being discussed here.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#39

Post by yardie » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:27 PM UTC

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #22

DFHippie wrote: post #6

Armed soldiers wheeled and fired en masse on unarmed protestors yet none of them faced legal penalty. The state of Ohio paid compensation. Because the soldiers "feared for their lives." I'm sure it was scary, but maybe we need braver national guardsmen. Official ass covering after official violence is a long tradition.

Unlike the rich and privileged college kids, the guardsmen had no choice in being there, nor did they have any choice about carrying loaded weapons.

Definitely had a choice in putting a round into the chamber.

Definitely had a choice in placing the sight between their eye and the victims.

Definitely had a choice in sliding a finger through the trigger guard.

Definitely had a choice in disengaging the safety.

Definitely had a choice in squeezing the trigger.

They had plenty of choices that day.

Re: The Shootings at Kent State: The Search for Historical Accuracy (1998)

#40

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, May 04, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

skyyler wrote: post #8

Convolutional wrote: post #2

Not even mentioned is Sihanouk, who had ruled neutral Cambodia since 1941 under various positions, was overthrown in a CIA-sponsored coup in the days before the US invasion of Cambodia. This had the effect of destabilizing Cambodia for the next couple of years.

“ Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for s…

It's not clear to me why Kissinger gets the blame for that, when the US was bombing Cambodia since 1965, and when increasing bombing of Cambodia was part of Nixon's own madman theory.