(MJ is an ancient medicine, it can't and won't cause any disease; proper use is a remedy for many)
Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
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Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#62This isn't news. The link between schizophrenia and cannabis use was known in mental health world before it was ever made illegal. The legalization crowd wouldn't promote that. The news is the problem is increasing and a 3 in 10 chance of males becoming schizophrenic is a reason to avoid it. Now I wonder what the correlation of cannabis use to active shooter incidents is?
Betting that was supposed to read "made legal" but the point is clear, the link is very well known both to the medical world and culturally at large. The question of mass shootings and cannabis is interesting, it doesn't seem as likely that someone, even experiencing serious paranoid schizophrenia would go out into the world shooting (instead of barricading themselves), but then I haven't seen statistics for the use…
A more interesting statistic would be rate of 1st-3rd degree murders committed on different drugs, and/or what percentage of cannabis users commit violent crimes in general.
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#63I really recommend people interested in Schizophrenia to read the book “Hidden Valley Road”. I saw it recommended in a HN comment previously. The book follows an American family who gave birth to 12 children, 6 of whom were later diagnosed with schizophrenia in their teens. It’s interesting because the book gives lots of insight into the historical to modern research on the condition. In the past psychologists though…
I can't speak to its validity, but the way it was explained to me from a neuroscientist a few years ago is that the general hypothesis now is that some people have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia and that predisposition sort of lies dormant until triggered. That would explain how both could be true: it could be genetic and triggered by environment/trauma.
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#64D2 is the primary receptor that many antipsychotics (especially the newer ones) target -- the first generation by completely blocking it, the third by partially agonizing it -- I.E., partially causing it to activate. However, third generation anitpsychotics activate it at a much lower value than dopamine itself would, so you potentially get fewer of the catastrophic side effects than you would from something like haloperidol or risperidone. However all three generations end up balancing out in the end to where they're actually not too terribly far apart in terms of side effects for the benefit provided, if I understand correctly, third generation antipsychotics like Abilify (aripiprazole) do hold an edge here.
D2 is one of the the receptors used for psychotomimetic models of the brain -- stimulating it tends to bring forward both the positive and negative effects of schizophrenia if I remember correctly. Another psychotomimetic pathway is NMDA antagonism, which makes sense as glutamate is implicated in schizophrenia.
What is interesting is that D2 agonists can help trigger latent schizophrenia, which exists genetically and often becomes obvious in the forefront by the late teens and early twenties. Marijuana use before the brain fully develops also has permanent effects on this brain in the same time range (not saying they're necessarily related). Schizophrenia does have some very clear structural causes -- for example, pyramidal neurons in some parts of the brain, if I remember correctly, are inverted to route information to lower layers in certain parts than higher ones. These are the neurons that collate and process many-to-one inputs->outputs.
One of the interesting things about schizophrenia is that it results (if I recall correctly) in _lower_ brain entropy on the whole, which is not what one might expect with an information routing issue. This means that one might not reap the benefits of having excess information flow, since not only is there noise being added to the system, the confidence of the outputs of the system are increased.
Many people who are schizophrenic tend to have a flat affect and are asocial, and will often have a tendency to safely pull away from society and keep to themselves, for example. They also have a lower tendency to become violent. This partially means, for example, that counterintuitively, that people who are schizophrenic, at least (and I would assume this applies as well to those who have schizophrenic tendencies) tend to have a lower violent crime rate as well. There are outliers, for example in homeless camps intercity, that can make schizophrenics seem more violent, though I would blame this on the human tendency of us valuing long tail events over uneventful ones for determining important information (something absolutely necessary for raw survival in a generally oftentimes cruel and unforgiving world -- society or no. It is unfortunately a useful bias to have).
All in all, this is a very interesting (if very tough, hard, and sad at times, to be quite frank!) topic, and does bear much of our interest and empathy. Please be sure to ground yourself in the science of it all, and I encourage you to keep pursuing knowledge about this subject matter. There is not necessarily much new under the sun, and a lot of these studies are not anything surprising, shocking, or novel, but instead confirmation of certain hypotheses or theories that have been running in the community for quite a while. Of course, we don't know for sure if this what this is -- this is one person who is not in the medical community's take on it (albeit with a fair bit of personal interest and investment in the topic), and someone who is a skilled researcher particular to the subject matter area might give you a different and/or better view on it.
Source for interest in this case is that I am very much interested in psychopharmacology, and it's been an, er, rather involved hobby of mine for a while in terms of the amount of papers and such that I've read on the matter (I also took a graduate class in it for funsies online through the Harvard extension school. I can recommend that experience -- it's not that hard to get into, and you get some _quality_ course material, guest speakers from around the field (!!!!), and lectures).
Feel free to let me know if you have any questions! Much love!!!! <3 :)))) :'D <3
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#65Original journal article (apparently not linked to in the Bloomberg piece): Association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia stronger in young males than in females (May 4 2023) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medici... Interestingly, the journal article doesn't bother to mention how cannabis use disorder (CUD) is defined; however, Bloomberg's description "frequent use despite negativ…
That's an inaccurate paraphrase. What they're saying is that people who continue to use despite negative consequences are more likely to suffer this particular negative consequence. Not as strong a statement as the headline, perhaps, but also not as weak as your misparaphrase.
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#66Interesting. My dad developed schizophrenia in his twenties and had been smoking a lot of marijuana. I have always wondered if the smoking triggers something in him. I will always wonder.
I’m curious how we could ever reasonably parse cause and effect here? I think it’s possible smoking a lot of marijuana triggers something in certain people that causes schizophrenia but I also think it’s possible that people in the early stages of schizophrenia might seek out marijuana as a way of self-soothing. Or maybe it could even be a bit of both?
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#67I like the idea of capping THC potency (delta-9), what we have now isn't what we the general public aimed to legalize this is just competition keeping up with consumer demand the consequences should fall on the vendors and growers on a licensing perspective, just like alcohol or food vending
I would counter that by pointing out that if your aim is to achieve a certain degree of bioavailability of TCH, you'd have to smoke a larger quantity of a lower-potency product, thus exposing yourself to more of the combustion by-products than necessary.
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#68Original journal article (apparently not linked to in the Bloomberg piece): Association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia stronger in young males than in females (May 4 2023) https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medici... Interestingly, the journal article doesn't bother to mention how cannabis use disorder (CUD) is defined; however, Bloomberg's description "frequent use despite negativ…
Yes, it does: "CUD was identified in the same registers and supplemented with the somatic part of the National Patient Register, defined as ICD-8 code 304.5 and ICD-10 code F12.X." 304.5 is the diagnostic code for CUD. We can infer that a person with CUD themselves have considered their cannabis use to be problematic. Otherwise they wouldn't have been diagnosed.
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#69Frequent mouse button clicks increase software hangs in desktop environments, study finds. (MJ is an ancient medicine, it can't and won't cause any disease; proper use is a remedy for many)
Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds
#70Interesting. My dad developed schizophrenia in his twenties and had been smoking a lot of marijuana. I have always wondered if the smoking triggers something in him. I will always wonder.
I’m curious how we could ever reasonably parse cause and effect here? I think it’s possible smoking a lot of marijuana triggers something in certain people that causes schizophrenia but I also think it’s possible that people in the early stages of schizophrenia might seek out marijuana as a way of self-soothing. Or maybe it could even be a bit of both?
The explanation "increased THC content causes more schizophrenia" is clearly more plausible than "more schizophrenia causes increased THC content".