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Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#241

Post by JohnFen »

denton-scratch wrote: post #164
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t really think of harms I suffered as a child from watching ads. It probably made me want to buy more stuff but since I was a kid I had to ask my parents and they usually said no. I was slightly sad but then I got over it. So if anything it probably taught me to be a more discerning consumer that wouldn’t buy anything just because of an ad. If we hide the real world from children too much then how do we expect…

> I can’t really think of harms I suffered as a child from watching ads. Nor me. But in those days, they couldn't push cigarettes, booze and gambling at us.

You must be younger than me. When I was a kid, I saw plenty of ads on TV for tobacco and booze. No gambling, though.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#242

Post by sgregnt »

snarf21 wrote: post #101
wirthjason wrote: post #16

Since there is bound to be a lot of Facebook bashing I’ll point out that they occasionally do some good. In the case of software they can be good stewards of FOSS. I listened to this CoRecursive episode about the history of Zstandard compression algorithm and how FB allowed the author, Yann Collet, to fully open source it while other companies wanted to keep it proprietary. https://corecursive.com/data-compression-ya…

All things in life is grey. But I think we should ask about is the MAIN thing they do net good or net bad. Most philanthropist spend their lives amassing massive fortunes built on exploitation and then leave a (large?) percentage of their ill gotten gains for good. As an extreme example, we shouldn't absolve a serial killer just because they volunteer for Meals on Wheels each week. Facebook has revenue greater than t…

Built on exploitation? In my opinion built on utility supplied to customers.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#243

Post by aw1621107 »

bcherny wrote: post #236

Wait, what? Is the FTC saying FB didn’t comply with the 2020 decree in 2019 and 2020 , before the decree was issued? Maybe I’m misreading the PDF [0]? [0] https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/C4365-Commissio...

The full title of the 2020 Order is "2020 Order Modifying Prior Decision and Order". The original order was issued in 2012.

In addition, the FTC alleges that Facebook has violated parts of the original 2012 order:

> Respondent’s misrepresentations regarding Messenger Kids violated Part I of the 2012 Order, Section 5 of the FTC Act, the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (“COPPA”), 15 U.S.C. § 6502, and the Children’s Online Privacy Protection Rule (“COPPA Rule”), 16 C.F.R. Part 312.

And parts of the original 2012 order that have been superseded by the 2020 order:

> Respondent’s misrepresentations regarding its 90-Day Limitation feature violated Section 5 of the FTC Act, Part I of the 2012 Order for the period prior to April 27, 2020, and Part I of the 2020 Order thereafter.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#244

Post by notyourwork »

kodah wrote: post #62
Waterluvian wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it kind of sucks to recognize that your job in FOSS is just a token gesture. Does FB really care about React’s contribution to the community? Or is it just happy to pay a few salaries to look good?

If you spend time around the FOSS arms of most companies the value they see first is in PR, the second is recruiting, the third is free work. The engineers lead the projects out of passion but what the company sees is opportunity.

Maybe passion, maybe they lead because of financial compensation. Open source or not, I like my jobs to come with a salary attached.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#245

Post by Spivak »

JohnFen wrote: post #235
sschueller wrote: post #13

The lobbying by Facebook and co. against TikTok appears to have started to back fire. If you keep pointing out how toxic Tiktok is to the young you can expect people to start looking into other apps that the young use as well.

You can't beat my kids! Only I should be allowed to do that.

I mean that's broadly the state's argument. You can harvest American's data as long as that data stays under the exclusive control of the US. It's the macro-scale version of why self-hosted in-house applications can have more privileged access than 3rd party services.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#246

Post by whimsicalism »

ianai wrote: post #74

The government is THE entity entrusted with creating personal property rights, amongst a lot of other things. (Assuming colonial debt as a national debt being how the revolutionaries bought their new country legitimacy.) So it’s about time for government to grant people sovereignty over their data and attention by creating some new personal property rights and protections. Keeping PII should be billable hours. Attent…

> Attention should be billable hours.

You are the one who wants to visit my website because it provides you with value and I am now obligated by force to pay you?

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#247

Post by burnished »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #108
AraceliHarker wrote: post #24

Mark Zuckerberg himself seems to understand the importance of privacy very well, taping over the microphone and camera on his MacBook Pro, keeping his trash can from being scavenged by others, and FB spending heavily to protect his security, so why does he have the exact opposite attitude towards others?

He isn’t forcing you to use Facebook. If you go into a store and they have a security camera that records you is that also violating your privacy? Not saying everything FB does is ok but I think we are going too crazy with the government intervention. I don’t exactly see that FB was committing deliberate fraud based on this latest report (but a lot is redacted). It seems more like there were just some bugs? As a dev…

The level of observation is completely out of scope with the level of permission or disclosure, the two situations are not remotely comparable.

You do not expect a stranger to track everything possible about you and then go on to sell that data from a casual interaction.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#248

Post by optymizer »

snarf21 wrote: post #101
wirthjason wrote: post #16

Since there is bound to be a lot of Facebook bashing I’ll point out that they occasionally do some good. In the case of software they can be good stewards of FOSS. I listened to this CoRecursive episode about the history of Zstandard compression algorithm and how FB allowed the author, Yann Collet, to fully open source it while other companies wanted to keep it proprietary. https://corecursive.com/data-compression-ya…

All things in life is grey. But I think we should ask about is the MAIN thing they do net good or net bad. Most philanthropist spend their lives amassing massive fortunes built on exploitation and then leave a (large?) percentage of their ill gotten gains for good. As an extreme example, we shouldn't absolve a serial killer just because they volunteer for Meals on Wheels each week. Facebook has revenue greater than t…

"Some crap for free". Come on now. Give credit where credit is due if you're going to talk about balanced scales.

React

PyTorch

Flow

React Native

Folly

RocksDB

llama

HHVM

Relay

Fresco

zstd

Buck

Sapling

Redex

JSX

infer

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#249

Post by reaperducer »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #108
AraceliHarker wrote: post #24

Mark Zuckerberg himself seems to understand the importance of privacy very well, taping over the microphone and camera on his MacBook Pro, keeping his trash can from being scavenged by others, and FB spending heavily to protect his security, so why does he have the exact opposite attitude towards others?

He isn’t forcing you to use Facebook. If you go into a store and they have a security camera that records you is that also violating your privacy? Not saying everything FB does is ok but I think we are going too crazy with the government intervention. I don’t exactly see that FB was committing deliberate fraud based on this latest report (but a lot is redacted). It seems more like there were just some bugs? As a dev…

He isn’t forcing you to use Facebook.

You don't have to actually use Facebook in order to have your privacy violated by Facebook.

This came out years ago in Congressional hearings. It's also why lots of people who never had Facebook accounts got privacy-violation money from Facebook — it created profiles of people in the backgrounds of photos.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#250

Post by vkou »

sgregnt wrote: post #242
snarf21 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All things in life is grey. But I think we should ask about is the MAIN thing they do net good or net bad. Most philanthropist spend their lives amassing massive fortunes built on exploitation and then leave a (large?) percentage of their ill gotten gains for good. As an extreme example, we shouldn't absolve a serial killer just because they volunteer for Meals on Wheels each week. Facebook has revenue greater than t…

Built on exploitation? In my opinion built on utility supplied to customers.

Actually, it's built on users supplied to advertisers.

---

Facebook's utility for me is now near zero, possibly negative. I'm only there because mom is there. Mom's only there because her friends are there.

Moving out of that morass - at least, until mom stops using computers is impossible.

At least with Amazon, Google, Netflix, Apple, Microsoft, etc, I (currently) have meaningful alternatives.

Network effects suck.

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