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How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

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Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#51

Post by dp-hackernews »

Damogran6 wrote: post #17
taude wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I typically add calendar reminders the moment I find myself signing up for something. Current reminders: Cancel Peacock by n-Date; Don't renew Tidal by foo; Downgrade YouTube premium on n;

Dear Lord, Youtube. Annoying Ad plays Saaay, we can make those ads go away, for just a little money. It's like paying the mob to make sure nothing happens to your store (by the mob)

On all Linux PC's I use uBlockOrigin (I never use windows thankfully!) and never see any ads, ever... It may be due to a combination of uBlockOrigin & uMatrix - I've not tested to know. Either way, I just never see ads, ever. I only use NewPipe to watch YouTube on mobile. Then there's the Kodi YouTube add-on - I never see any ads there either...

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#53

Post by ssharp »

graypegg wrote: post #3

I heard someone say a while back that “cancelled customers are just potential future customers”. Anyone that’s had an easy cancellation process will remember that flexibility if they ever need that service again. No idea why no large subscription service seems to understand that. Make me go thru annoying hoops and you’ve lost me for good!

I worked for a business similar to Daily Harvest (used in OP's website as an example dark pattern) and this is absolutely true.

We did have some confusing terminology and the distinction between "Cancel" and "Pause" was often times not obvious. "Pause" meant you wouldn't be charged again until you Unpaused your subscription. "Cancel" meant the subscription was dead and could not be re-activated. If you wanted to subscribe again, you'd have to re-enter your payment information. This led to a lot of confusion so we had to message those things better. This was mostly due to the backend tech and I'm not sure how much that impacts some of the sites mentioned in the article.

What I see happening now with those services is that the "pause" function might allow you to pause for n-weeks but not indefinitely. That's a shit pattern as well.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#54

Post by madsbuch »

I actually had a very comfortable time cancelling Amazon prime in Portugal. I guess this is again one of the areas where the evil regulations of the EU overlords make life easier for the average Joe.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#55

Post by nerdjon »

chasing wrote: post #24

You know which services I don't have problems cancelling? Ones I subscribe to via Apple's in-app payments. I get that it sucks to have Apple scrape a percentage of my payments for themselves, but if you're a company I don't fully trust and/or want to have total control over my subscription without a bunch of hassle, Apple's IAPs are the way to go. Mostly this is great with the big streaming services. Want Disney+ or…

100% this.

Going even further I always get emails when yearly subscriptions are charging in a few days and those emails even include how to cancel the subscription if I no longer wish to use it.

I know people love to complain about the App Store, and there are some valid complaints. But companies being forced to use this mechanism for subscriptions is a huge benefit for consumers.

Also frankly, it's a huge benefit for the developers also. There are a number of apps that I would never subscribe too if I had to use their own custom solution thanks to how many bad behaviors I have seen. But since it is part of Apple's system I don't worry about subscribing.

Edit to add:

I really hope that if Apple does end up being forced to open this up and allow apps to do their own subscriptions. That for many consumers like me, as a developer your choice is 70% of the money or none. I am not moving to your subscription service and will find alternatives.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#56

Post by lesuorac »

mikestew wrote: post #15
scottmcleod wrote: post #4

Yeah just look at BBB reviews for subscription companies...

Or better yet, don't. One has no reason to take the Better Business Bureau seriously. There was no reason 30 years ago when I, as a business owner, signed up for it, no reason now. "Ooooh, you'll report me to the BBB, those three senior citizens that actually look at that might not do business with me!" Plus, I looked up Amazon: A-. What was I supposed to see here?

I mean, if a company doesn't take the BBB seriously why would they take you seriously?

I think Amazon typically has a good reputation for consumers. You'd have better luck looking up Comcast [1] and if you compare that page to Amazon's you'll certainly understand that you may encounter some difficulties and perhaps choose a different provider (lol) for your service.

[1]: https://www.bbb.org/us/pa/philadelphia/profile/cable-tv/comc...

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#57

Post by manuelmoreale »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #32
dyingkneepad wrote: post #30

As much as I think a website like this is beautiful, I always get highly annoyed when browsing stuff like this. There's a giant scrollable area with no text at the beginning, so I thought I had to click the little mac-like titlebar window buttons. When text finally appears, I have to wait for the animations before I can read. If I decide to scroll fast I lose text. My laptop fan keeps running all the time, which high…

Politely disagree. Keep these sites because they’re cool and I think they really flex the muscle of the medium, but for people who just want some straightforward long form journalism, have a “simple” style sheet.

I agree but make them usable on mobile. Scrolling this article on a phone was an atrocious experience.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#58

Post by liendolucas »

Another way to forcefully cancel a subscription is simply registering with a card to which you can manually add or recharge credit, the day that you do not put money in it (or remove from it), the subscription should be automatically cancelled as they can't debit that amount from you (yeah, it doesn't work if you're subscribed to several services. Or maybe it could if you meticulously add/remove credit the exact days that they charge you provided different days for each service, but that's just too much overhead).

If I recall correctly for example with Revolut it is even possible to generate virtual cards, which is great for security reasons as well.

For people that run their own mail servers no need to use any useful or real email addresses when signing up, simply use netflix@yourdomain.com, amazon@yourdomain.com, etc. Again you have 100% control over those email addresses and make sure that all trash/spam/undesired mail goes exactly where is supposed to go.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#59

Post by shever73 »

madsbuch wrote: post #54

I actually had a very comfortable time cancelling Amazon prime in Portugal. I guess this is again one of the areas where the evil regulations of the EU overlords make life easier for the average Joe. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

The last time I cancelled Prime from Ireland, I still encountered dark patterns. Lots of attempts to get you to reconsider, buttons being labeled "Lose my Prime Benefits" instead of "Cancel", cancellation links being a lighter colour and not clearly identifiable as buttons that kind of thing.

Re: How companies use dark patterns to keep you subscribed

#60

Post by annexrichmond »

graypegg wrote: post #3

I heard someone say a while back that “cancelled customers are just potential future customers”. Anyone that’s had an easy cancellation process will remember that flexibility if they ever need that service again. No idea why no large subscription service seems to understand that. Make me go thru annoying hoops and you’ve lost me for good!

Yup. I remember how hard it was to cancel Spectrum’s cable subscription, took almost 2 hours

Now a year later I wanted TV again for playoffs season, thought about Spectrum and was like nope. Went with an online streaming serving instead.

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