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Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

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Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#141

Post by Devasta »

nightowl_games wrote: post #79
medler wrote: post #55

It is insane to me that we allow any advertising to young children at all, whether online, on TV, or anywhere else. I think deliberately manipulating kids is heinous and I genuinely don’t understand why this isn’t the consensus opinion.

"Deliberately manipulating" is a biased term that negatively taints your statement. With the bias removed, the statement's ambiguity is revealed. You must unpack what you mean by "deliberately manipulating". For example, teaching and parenting is a form of deliberately manipulating. Picking my kid up when he's about to fall down a slide is deliberately manipulating. Handing him a banana is deliberately manipulating.…

Caffeine is a drug, but when someone says "I don't want my kids doing drugs" we all know they aren't talking about Dr. Pepper.

You knew exactly what they meant, why pretend otherwise?

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#142

Post by the_only_law »

Devasta wrote: post #141
nightowl_games wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Deliberately manipulating" is a biased term that negatively taints your statement. With the bias removed, the statement's ambiguity is revealed. You must unpack what you mean by "deliberately manipulating". For example, teaching and parenting is a form of deliberately manipulating. Picking my kid up when he's about to fall down a slide is deliberately manipulating. Handing him a banana is deliberately manipulating.…

Caffeine is a drug, but when someone says "I don't want my kids doing drugs" we all know they aren't talking about Dr. Pepper. You knew exactly what they meant, why pretend otherwise?

[flagged]

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#143

Post by jonhohle »

bombcar wrote: post #129
ryoshu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hated growing up with Transformers and He-Man and all of the other TV shows that were animated versions of toys I played with. Wait. I didn't hate that at all.

I noticed a Youtube ad on a kids video was literally a 44 minute Transformer cartoon. If you didn't hit skip, it would play for 44 minutes. Not sure what I feel about it.

In the 80s and 90s there were multi-hour long blocks of toy ads disguised as cartoons. That’s all Transformers and He-Man ever were.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#144

Post by ferminaut »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #111
ferminaut wrote: post #65

Facebook (and much of social media) is the modern day Philip Morris peddling addictive experiences...except the harm is way less obvious. Folks arent getting cancer, but they are wrecking their mental health. The difference is social media falls under the first amendment and is much harder to regulate. It's a borderline national security issue, too.

I think it’s a plausible argument. But shouldn’t we regulate the whole industry then instead of going after a single company? Also there are clearly some benefits from social media so I wouldn’t want to get rid of all of it. For example messaging doesn’t seem so bad in terms of harm vs value. Or things like Facebook Groups that are more like discussion forums (even HN itself falls under this!)

Yeah I agree. Singling out the largest player is silly. We've basically given different nations the ability to control the thoughts of society. Social media hasnt been organic for a long time. Organic social media grows until it is consumed by bots and bad actors.

I dont think removing social media is a solution. I do think some sort of realID for social media that could identify every user is real & a certain age would be beneficial (think Worldcoin but not done by a private entity). I think this alone would solve a large issue around social media. The other requirement that should exist is some balanced discussion to remove the echo chamber effects. Amplifying only certain thought patterns is dangerous.

Take reddit for example. A single bot farm with 100 or so accounts can effectively manipulate entire communities.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#145

Post by walls »

criddell wrote: post #119
jjulius wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spokesperson is the voice of the company, what they say is supposed to represent the opinion of the company as a whole.

I bet the rank and file are not enraged by this and I would guess that the majority probably agree that Meta should not exploit children.

Are you trying to say that they are just following orders?

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#146

Post by bombcar »

jonhohle wrote: post #143
bombcar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed a Youtube ad on a kids video was literally a 44 minute Transformer cartoon. If you didn't hit skip, it would play for 44 minutes. Not sure what I feel about it.

In the 80s and 90s there were multi-hour long blocks of toy ads disguised as cartoons. That’s all Transformers and He-Man ever were.

I love the Cheat Commandos parodies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4Od4Bl7cE

I still feel a bit different about cartoons that were toy ads vs pure toy ad, somehow.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#147

Post by Brystephor »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #113
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t really think of harms I suffered as a child from watching ads. It probably made me want to buy more stuff but since I was a kid I had to ask my parents and they usually said no. I was slightly sad but then I got over it. So if anything it probably taught me to be a more discerning consumer that wouldn’t buy anything just because of an ad. If we hide the real world from children too much then how do we expect…

In the US, kids are bombarded with ads for sugary cereals and candy and we have a huge childhood obesity problem.

So to reverse this, if kids were shown advertisements about vegetables and gyms or other physical activities, then there would be no child obesity?

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#148

Post by benzible »

titusjohnson wrote: post #105
coding123 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how about, Facebook spokesperson furious...

Facebook itself is has no vocal cords or thought membrane. It's often easy to forget because we like to personify companies, but a company is just a piece of paper for tax and legal purposes. You can safely think "Facebook wants me to think it thinks this" when a Spokesperson speaks. You can safely think "Part of Facebook thinks this" when an individual employee speaks. You can safely think "Facebook Corporate wants…

"Collective" may not be the most accurate way to describe Facebook (er, "Meta"), given that its structure places it on the opposite end of the spectrum:

> “Mark Zuckerberg, our founder, chairman and CEO, is able to exercise voting rights with respect to a majority of the voting power of our outstanding capital stock and therefore has the ability to control the outcome of matters submitted to our stockholders for approval, including the election of directors and any merger, consolidation or sale of all or substantially all of our assets." [1]

And forget about rank-and-file; Zuckerberg overrides decisions of senior management...

> During a company meeting this month, Chief Technology Officer Andrew Bosworth said Zuckerberg made some hires over the “objections” of senior executives — and sometimes rebuffed their advice in order to fire people, according to two people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private company matters. [2]

[1] http://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001326801/45290cc0...

[2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/how-mark-zuckerber...

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#149

Post by scotty79 »

anaganisk wrote: post #53
criddell wrote: post #15

How can a corporation be furious? After reading the article, they don't say anything about the company or people inside the company being furious. The closest thing I could find is that a Meta spokesperson said they plan to fight it vigorously and expect to win. Maybe the headline should be "Meta opposed to proposed FTC ban on monetizing youth data".

I thought corporations are considered people in US.

Only when convenient.

Re: Facebook has not been doing enough to comply with a 2020 privacy order: FTC

#150

Post by thisgoesnowhere »

a13o wrote: post #47
MyelinatedT wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snap is more of a messaging app afaict. I'm pretty sure the biggest harms from social media come from algorithmic targeting of content, echo chamber creation, and the ability to hugely amplify fringe opinions and destabilise debate. If your only concern is data handling, though, then fair enough.

Children become addicted to Snapchat streaks and their peers in school shun them socially based on whether they have big streaks with popular kids or not. It's like Lord of the Flies mixed with an episode of Black Mirror. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lets-talk-tween/2017...

I thought snap was passe now that tik tok is around.
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