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Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

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Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#51
post #48
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least you admit your interest in this article is essentially selfish. You like it because you learned something. What did you learn, exactly? Never mind than Andrew had no say in whether this article should go to press. He may or may not be a terrible manager -- is that a good reason to shame him in public? If he were a fantastic manager, would TechCrunch have written a similar, but glowing article? Of cours…

I learned to stay the fuck away from any company where Andrew Hsu or relatives are involved. And until we see a bunch of ex Airy folks saying this article is full of lies, it's fair to assume it's accurate.

I'm not quite so ready to believe terrible things about Andrew Hsu - there's a non-zero chance that this is a hit-job by disgruntled ex-employees. Nor do we know if 100% of the accusations are 100% true, so assuming complete and utter factual accuracy would be unwise.

But I take issue with jfarmer framing this as vigilantism. TC has brought up specific, verifiable claims of abuse, they have interviewed ex-employees, and they have given Hsu a chance to respond. I don't see how this is "vulgar" or "vigilantism".

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#52
post #3

This speaks to me against Peter Thiel's "20 under 20" program as it all seems to come down to lack of maturity and experience (and inflated ego).

Judging a whole program by one potential failure seems unfair too me, especially in a field where failure is so common.

and necessary...

Education is the worlds biggest problems and opportunities right behind healthcare. People risking everything to make the world a better place shouldn't be denigrated like this. Their failure means there is more for someone to learn from.

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The scale of what Anthony is writing about is so small, but he's done real damage to Andrew's reputation." If the claims in the article are true, the company was being run like a police state, worse than most of the Big-Company shops that we love to deride here on HN. A borderline abusive work environment that's policed over by the family patriarch and matriarch... that's "small stuff"?! Damage to one's reputation…

Internet-scale vigilantism has an awful side effect: it can never be entirely walked back. The damage has been done and the crowd is happy. They have their circus.

'A single article, quoting sources, and even giving the founder a chance to respond right in the article itself, is not "internet vigilantism".'

Yes, it is. This isn't meticulously researched. This is not a 60 Minutes exposé. Did Anthony do any fact checking? Did he spend time researching the company and verifying these people's stories?

No, he wrote an article in the Fox News style. Who needs fact-checking when you can just get people from two opposing camps to contradict each other?

It was gossip. It worked. It's no better than an article about how such-and-such celebrity yelled at a waitress and made her cry.

'In your books, me blogging about a terrible previous employer is "vigilantism".'

Again, yes, by definition.

If you put your name to it I'd think it was distasteful and a little petty, assuming we're talking about bad management and not something criminal.

If you didn't, I'd think you were a coward.

(This is my last response, so you can have the last word if you care to.)

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#54
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked the article because it was about mistakes. We get a glimpse into a startup that used funding unwisely, made some strange management calls, overworked their employees, etc. We also get some feedback from people who shared the vision but had to live through the mistakes. Then, we have Andrew's response, which is a very good move in showing the reader a second perspective on the matter. Finally, we're left with…

Well, at least you admit your interest in this article is essentially selfish. You like it because you learned something. What did you learn, exactly? Never mind than Andrew had no say in whether this article should go to press. He may or may not be a terrible manager -- is that a good reason to shame him in public? If he were a fantastic manager, would TechCrunch have written a similar, but glowing article? Of cours…

Using your example, if the said article goes deep into the matter, talks about what methods they've tried, how those methods failed, what was the outcome of using those methods, the couple's discussion on the said methods... then yes, I'd consider the story to have some useful nuggets... but that's assuming the article is non-tabloidy (you're begging the question here)

The article is the price he paid for screwing up, yes. I much prefer entrepreneurs entering the space with a realistic model of their responsibilities, rather than "Do whatever you want, we'll just sweep your mistakes under the rug :)".

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#55
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned to stay the fuck away from any company where Andrew Hsu or relatives are involved. And until we see a bunch of ex Airy folks saying this article is full of lies, it's fair to assume it's accurate.

I'm not quite so ready to believe terrible things about Andrew Hsu - there's a non-zero chance that this is a hit-job by disgruntled ex-employees. Nor do we know if 100% of the accusations are 100% true, so assuming complete and utter factual accuracy would be unwise. But I take issue with jfarmer framing this as vigilantism. TC has brought up specific, verifiable claims of abuse, they have interviewed ex-employees,…

Well, right then, let's all enjoy our Two Minutes Hate.

The claims are hardly specific or verifiable, for what it's worth, and I don't think Anthony sees it as his job to determine what "actually happened." What "actually happened" is incredibly boring, most likely.

Instead we get a Fox News style report where two sides say contradictory things and we cheer on the one we identify with the most.

For example, does Anthony really know that there is an email address that goes to the three adults? Did he do anything to verify it? I think all he knows is that an anonymous employee said there is one.

And even if there is, it's still lurid.

"A vigilante is a private individual who legally or illegally punishes an alleged lawbreaker, or participates in a group which metes out extralegal punishment to an alleged lawbreaker."

I mean, yes, by definition. "The group" has decided Andrew Hsu should be punished publicly for being a terrible manager -- allegedly. Before the internet, maybe a group of people would go over to his house, force him to put a sign around his neck, and march him around the town square for a while?

(This is my last response in this part of the thread. I'll let you have the last word if you'd like.)

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#56
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite so ready to believe terrible things about Andrew Hsu - there's a non-zero chance that this is a hit-job by disgruntled ex-employees. Nor do we know if 100% of the accusations are 100% true, so assuming complete and utter factual accuracy would be unwise. But I take issue with jfarmer framing this as vigilantism. TC has brought up specific, verifiable claims of abuse, they have interviewed ex-employees,…

Well, right then, let's all enjoy our Two Minutes Hate. The claims are hardly specific or verifiable, for what it's worth, and I don't think Anthony sees it as his job to determine what "actually happened." What "actually happened" is incredibly boring, most likely. Instead we get a Fox News style report where two sides say contradictory things and we cheer on the one we identify with the most. For example, does Anth…

Okay, I was hoping to keep this civil and dispassionate, but I'm really strongly taking issue with your words.

"Two Minutes Hate", "Romans chanting for gladiatorial blood", "Vigilantism", what are you on about? You seem more interested in throwing as many weasel words and colorful, fear-mongering imagery into your comments than actual commentary. Are you writing "1984" or are we talking about the article?

Let's dive into the article first, though, and list out some verifiable, specific claims being made:

- Hsu's family is the actual senior management, despite not holding any officially recognized position.

- The unofficial/family senior management sequestered themselves in an office inaccessible to other employees, and in fact acted so collectively that there was a single email address to reach all of them.

- Employees were forced to commit to 9-6pm quiet hours. Promised breaks of this silent period were not honored.

- Some employees were forced to give lengthy debriefings at the end of the day to senior management, keeping them at the office until 9-10pm.

- The expectation from senior management is to work 6-7 day weeks.

- Management actively discouraged documentation of complaints.

- Management told employees to not speak to ex-employees.

These are concrete claims that the founder and startup can refute definitively. These are also factual findings that one can discover interviewing past and current employees. This is a long way from making vague, non-specific accusations about a company.

So much for your "the claims are neither specific nor verifiable".

You also seem to be making a lot of assumptions about myself and others who have commented in this thread. You accuse us all of "taking smug delight in the bruising... of another person", and likened people commenting on this article to Roman gladiatorial spectators.

As an Asian I'd rather that these accusations not be true, since they inevitably raise stereotypes that I have to live with every day, and I certainly do not want people to check my office for my parents when I do business in the future. Far from taking schadenfreude in these accusations, these sadden me, and if they pan out to be true, will mean a genuine step back for Asian founders.

And yet, if these accusations are true, they deserve to be aired. The bruising of one's reputation is entirely deserved if the claims being leveled are true.

You have an incredibly wide definition of the word "vigilantism", and I suggest you look into its historical uses before trying to weasel that word into anything where any group takes any action against anyone.

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite so ready to believe terrible things about Andrew Hsu - there's a non-zero chance that this is a hit-job by disgruntled ex-employees. Nor do we know if 100% of the accusations are 100% true, so assuming complete and utter factual accuracy would be unwise. But I take issue with jfarmer framing this as vigilantism. TC has brought up specific, verifiable claims of abuse, they have interviewed ex-employees,…

Well, right then, let's all enjoy our Two Minutes Hate. The claims are hardly specific or verifiable, for what it's worth, and I don't think Anthony sees it as his job to determine what "actually happened." What "actually happened" is incredibly boring, most likely. Instead we get a Fox News style report where two sides say contradictory things and we cheer on the one we identify with the most. For example, does Anth…

I lied. :)

I'm not interested in the article's claims, so I'm not going through them point-by-point.

I apologize for my metaphors. They aren't weasel words, though. I'm not equivocating about anything. They're direct, if non-literal, expressions of my opinion.

I think the article is lurid and vulgar. I think it's designed to stoke a mob response (cf. earl's comment). I don't think the goal was to uncover "the facts" any more than Hannity and Colmes is designed to uncover the facts.

I also think, even if the claims in the article were true, it's tantamount to an article about someone seeing Jack Nicholson yelling at a waitress and making her break down in tears.

We like that article because it makes us feel righteous. It's still vulgar, though.

(This is actually my last response. I hope the above was sufficiently civil and dispassionate. I'm not sure why being dispassionate is a virtue, though.)

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#59
post #25

"They say the Hsus refused to commit anything to writing, and would become angry if anyone complained via email (rather than verbally)." I've seen this before. This is usually so that there isn't any evidence of the communication stored anywhere. A very bad sign of a Machiavellian management style that I've never seen end well. Employees were warned against socializing or discussing their compensation with other memb…

I got burned on this one before too.

If management refuses to communicate in written format, then they are up to no good.

Re: Big Cuts at Airy Labs, Ex-Employees Blame Management

#60
I'll probably get flamed/negative karma for this, but here goes. I actually know the folks involved so I won't comment on any of the details. Anthony and Andrew are both doing their jobs. How well they are doing it is up to you to decide.

I will say that taking one startup's stumble, or even their eventual demise, as a data-point to slam a whole program is pretty harsh. I'm a Mentor for 20 Under 20 and I certainly don't think the mission is to get kids to drop out of college, but it's easy for the media to push this little sound bite. If you've meet any of the Fellows you would know they're out to change the world and would likely do so with or without Peter's money. Failure is the expected outcome for the vast majority of startups. All you Founders here know that, or will learn it first hand. Most of these kids have never failed at anything in their lives, and will unfortunately face these hard lessons in the public eye. It's really easy to criticize and grab pitchforks online.

You can think whatever you want about the situation at Airy Labs and you are entitled to your opinion of Andrew Hsu as well. But to try and lump all the other Fellows into this is unfair to them and quite disappointing.

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