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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#471

Post by kbenson »

capableweb wrote: post #324
gtirloni wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We often look at companies as a single monolith but that isn't conductive to productive discussions. OP is giving a different perspective, a more detailed and granular one. One interest counterpoint would be that the problematic behavior is encouraged by the CEO, then the different units wouldn't matter much (well, unless they have a tendency to go rogue). Anyway, all idle speculation on my part but I welcome the per…

Maybe if they stopped trying to become monoliths, people would stop considering them as monoliths? What purpose could buying GitHub serve if they don't want GitHub to be a part of Microsoft? They are obviously trying to do everything, via a centralized organization which is Microsoft, so by all measures, they are or want to become, a monolith. Regardless of what other people in the organization is doing, the organiza…

That's sort of like condemning all of the U.S. because one state does something you don't agree with. In a large organization different departments may do different things and have different incentives, and until they overstep too much may have quite a bit of autonomy.

Considering all actions taken as part of some overarching plan is probably assuming too much. Some actions probably are towards some larger strategy, but myriad other ones are likely sub-level decisions. Always looking at large corporations such as Microsoft as one entity with a cohesive goal is easy, but it's also simplistic, which doesn't always yield a useful and productive discussion.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#472

Post by rocketbop »

stronglikedan wrote: post #293
rocketbop wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can favourite HN comments if you just want to come back to them.

To clarify, since it's not obvious in the UI, you have to click the timestamp of the comment, and then you can favorite it.

Thanks, I should have mentioned that. A couple of features are hidden in the show comment view.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#473

Post by BizarroLand »

capableweb wrote: post #324
gtirloni wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We often look at companies as a single monolith but that isn't conductive to productive discussions. OP is giving a different perspective, a more detailed and granular one. One interest counterpoint would be that the problematic behavior is encouraged by the CEO, then the different units wouldn't matter much (well, unless they have a tendency to go rogue). Anyway, all idle speculation on my part but I welcome the per…

Maybe if they stopped trying to become monoliths, people would stop considering them as monoliths? What purpose could buying GitHub serve if they don't want GitHub to be a part of Microsoft? They are obviously trying to do everything, via a centralized organization which is Microsoft, so by all measures, they are or want to become, a monolith. Regardless of what other people in the organization is doing, the organiza…

Even a monolith is made up of many atoms all sticking together.

Just because your particular outcropping isn't coated in digital blood doesn't mean you're not part of the problem.

If a company sent out two crews of people and one crew gave out flowers to strangers and the other crew punched little old lady's faces in, would you still crow about how you're only handing out flowers?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#474

Post by nerdix »

buran77 wrote: post #140
AraceliHarker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put, people don't love Edge as much as they love Chrome. The browser bundled with Windows 11 is naturally Edge, but users who use Chrome install Chrome of their own volition, so forcing them to open links in Edge is extremely annoying.

I doubt "love" for the software is involved here. I think many users believe Chrome is "the internet" just like they used to believe the Google search page was the internet, or Internet Explorer before that. This impression of Chrome was built on the fact that it's a solid browser but was enforced by Google with the same underhanded practices they applied for years. My Android phone came with Chrome which I can't uni…

People have to use "the internet" to install Chrome on a fresh Windows install. So I don't think anyone thinks that Chrome is the internet (that's actually something Chrome had to overcome when IE was dominant and installed by default).

Microsoft problem now is that for 15+ years people have been told and essentially trained to install a new browser if they want a good internet experience on Windows. And that is Microsoft's fault for shipping a shitty browser with their OS for multiple decades. That's why they had to drop the "Internet Explorer" branding. It became synonymous with "browser you can't use if you want to use any modern website" during the late 00s/early 2010s.

Obviously, Edge uses Chromium now but that is a relatively recent develop (and a technical detail that the average user isn't even going to know). So it's not enough to undo 20 years of "the browser that comes with Windows is crap" inertia right away.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#475

Post by makeitdouble »

katbyte wrote: post #345
can16358p wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I'm on macOS and while Apple has its own weird and hostile behavior, it's still much better than Microsoft.

What parts of macos do you consider hostile behaviour?

A simple and fundamental bit: downgrading the OS is a PITA (is it even still possible ?), and dealing with the T2 side of it makes it a million times more complicated.

On more pet peeves level of hostility:

Still haven't found a clean way to get rid of Apple Music. Every single time I accidentally click the play button on my headphones it brings up Apple Music.

2FA verification being bound to Apple devices.

Phasing out kext support under the security reasoning also means decent low level extensions are now a dream of the past. Stuff like Karabiner are notably worse when system perfs degrade, and I'm not holding my breath for linux partition mounting.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#476

Post by olyjohn »

thesuitonym wrote: post #328
NikolaNovak wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your premise. I have an iPhone (forced upon me by work) and it's ridiculous how many links still try to open in safari or Apple maps. I've tried to configure it for years and I've literally uninstalled Apple maps, but half the time iPhone keeps wanting me to reinstall it when I click a link or address. And a lot of url links open in safari instead of chrome or Firefox. Same with many other things - I…

You sound like a person who never even tried. Open Settings > Safari > Default Browser App, and select the app you want. It's really that easy.

Oh yeah, I forgot that the default browser app, should be under the settings for a different browser. Putting that shit under the Safari settings is deceptive and hides it while keeping it in plain site.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#477

Post by zamadatix »

Teams is just odd about wanting to do things in its bubble. For example if you click a pdf file it opens a preview. Then you click download button on the preview and you get a Teams specific notification (which has multiple layering and positioning issues compared to native notification) with a list of your recent downloads. Then you click the file and it opens a preview in teams again so you close than, go back to the downloads list, select to open it in a folder, then open the file and it actually opens in a real PDF reader.

Bad enough in itself but that's only half of it. Instead of fix this behavior to just work the official path is to install a teams app for Adobe Acrobat that handles the redirection, but only for Acrobat. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/adobe-acrob...

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#478

Post by djtango »

CharlesW wrote: post #356
dustedcodes wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, for any serious work you'll want to use the native apps. Don't you see how absurd that is in 2023? It's like me saying "Online shops are nice in a pinch, but I advise folks to think of them primarily as viewing goods. In my experience, for any serious shopping you'll want to visit the bricks and mortar shop"

> Don't you see how absurd that is in 2023? I understand that POV, but I should temper my "serious work" statement by saying that the Office web apps are pretty great and keep getting better. However, the native desktop apps are just better. It's hard to make a direct comparison with Google's web-app-only strategy since the Workspace apps are toys in comparison, more akin to Apple's iWork suite.

I haven't used Sheets as extensively as I've used Excel, and once upon a time I was a real Excel machine who knew all the alt menu navigation by heart (great precursor training for vim) but I have slowly become a Sheets convert.

Being able to write appscript between all the Workplace products was pretty painless.

I haven't tried to push Sheets to do million row fat sheets for crunching but wouldn't be surprised if it does ok

I am using Excel on windows again lately and it is reasonably smooth but boy do I miss Drive + Sheets + collaboration for a 2023 remote workflow

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#479

Post by topkai22 »

nickjj wrote: post #237
themoop wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most things you describe are just getting used to product difference / configuration options. Clicking an email definitely marks it as read. The calendar schedule not being revealed is a just a privacy option, each person must opt-in to share the exact meeting details. Having used both gsuite and office I find that they both get job done fairly well

> The calendar schedule not being revealed is a just a privacy option, each person must opt-in to share the exact meeting details. We've done this as far as I know. We also added each other to our directory. I can see the details of other team mate's calendars in the full view but this does not show up in the mini-view when you add a guest to an event. With Google, when you create a new event and put in a user's emai…

The location for setting mail read on selected is settings-> mail-> message handling-> Mark as read.

Outlook also defaults to not marking messages as unread when the unread filter is on. I presume because profiles were setting the filter and then complaining their messages were disappearing? You can change rose on the same settings page

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#480

Post by devsda »

worrycue wrote: post #193
dubcanada wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By uninstall their apps I assume you mean play service? In which case you can you just need root. Same as you can’t uninstall core Microsoft services. Apple not allowing other browsers is a bit much…

> Apple not allowing other browsers is a bit much… Apple is paranoid about being dependent on other companies. If Chrome becomes a "must have" Google will have leverage over them by threatening to pull Chrome from the iPhone. They have been burned badly before: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt Instead of letting that happen, they use the iPhone's market share to push an alternative they contro…

> He (Gates) knew that Donn's Basic was way ahead of Microsoft's, so, as a condition for agreeing to renew Applesoft, he demanded that Apple abandon MacBasic, buying it from Apple for the price of $1, and then burying it.

Not exactly EEE, but I see where the inspiration comes from. I always thought the mistrust of MSFT in the community started mainly because of how it pushed IE and its Windows OEM licensing terms, but it goes far beyond that.

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