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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#411

Post by vxNsr »

nickjj wrote: post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

Let me preface this by saying, I don’t work for Microsoft but have used their suite for a long time.

Nearly everything you’re complaining about can be changed in settings. Either by you or the IT Admin.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#412

Post by capableweb »

hirako2000 wrote: post #389
mikewarot wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. This is a joke, right? We never, ever, needed anything other than the Win32 GUI at the core of windows, and it still works to this day. You can write Windows programs without the new stuff, in Lazarus, for example. C# and .NET were a huge step backwards. VB6 was something easy enough for domain experts to get working, without having to hire a programmer. Delphi for Win…

How so? Because they sort of open source the tech and made it possible to build for other platforms? C# is a great language taking over the advances of Java and C/++ making things a bit better, but intentions didn't make it any better: owning the devs. VScode? A rebuild of Atom, "free" with un-disable-able telemetry with the same intention: owning the devs Buy out of github, owning the devs Rebuild of ms office for t…

Just to add more examples of markets they are trying to take over by not being better, but by buying up the competition:

- Video games: Activision/Blizzard, ZeniMax, Double Fine Productions, Obsidian Entertainment, inXile Entertainment, Playground Games, Compulsion Games, Undead Labs, Ninja Theory, Mojang

- Developer ecosystems: npm, Dependabot, GitHub, Playfab, Deis, Xamarin, Havok, HockeyApp

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#413

Post by user3939382 »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #409
user3939382 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely what login scripts and GPO is designed for. Most people don't realize Windows is actually primarily designed as a corporate OS, home users are an afterthought. BYOD is a different story, but there are scenarios with thousands of desktops (i.e. VDI) where these kinds of changes are trivial.

None of this prevents users from complaining about broken features.

It does because if you test your policies and scripts it shouldn't be broken. None of this negates the fact that we shouldn't have to be writing hacks to counteract MS's dark pattern games in the first place.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#414

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

marcosdumay wrote: post #335
refulgentis wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XKCD isn’t relevant to the sentence before, as comic notes, it’s about Apple. the “Android makes you tap something to change your default browser!” was some FUD that either Brave/DDG stopped spreading because it was generating backlash. Much like the “you have to confirm you enable sideloading!” alert in Android, it’s not clear what people want otherwise, a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult. I…

> a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult The problem with sideloading on Android is that it won't accept upgrades for your applications. You will have to get them from the installer app. And then it will confirm before downloading each app. And then it will confirm before installing each app. And then it will confirm again because, well, I have no idea. One confirmation isn't the same as making it…

Not entirely true on the latest version of Android. I'm not sure what the pattern is, but for most of the apps I've installed via Droidify, I don't have to confirm anything when installing updates.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#415

Post by 8ytecoder »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #329
capableweb wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because I'd rather have Watch notifications while I drive Off topic, but you're not actually looking at your watch while you drive right?

If you're navigating with a watch on, it'll notify you of upcoming turns (either through vibrations or by making a turn signal-like noise) without ducking/pausing your music.

Uses different haptics for left and right turns as well.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#416

Post by snarfy »

nickjj wrote: post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

> I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago.

and then

> Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read.

Did it occur to you that maybe a few days of use isn't enough for you to understand how to use office? Everything you complained about works fine, even if you don't understand how to do it.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#417

Post by cptskippy »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

You're operating under the assumption that Microsoft is the only one doing this.

This sort of thing happens regularly on Android though it's perhaps more subtle. I don't know how many times I've had to set the default browser, photo viewer, pdf viewer, etc only to be prompted to choose how to open a file and Google's App is first in the list.

They also implement features in their Apps to avoid your defaults: https://i.imgur.com/9nzpTPG.png

Certain features like STT for the entire operating system require Google Assistant. And image search or real-time translation require the Google Search App to be installed. So you have to choose between being harassed by Assistant and Search prompts at ever turn, or disabling core OS features.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#418

Post by manuelabeledo »

user3939382 wrote: post #413
manuelabeledo wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this prevents users from complaining about broken features.

It does because if you test your policies and scripts it shouldn't be broken. None of this negates the fact that we shouldn't have to be writing hacks to counteract MS's dark pattern games in the first place.

> It does because if you test your policies and scripts it shouldn't be broken.

Removing Edge, like the previous poster suggested, does break certain features. Also, you seem to suggest that standard Windows deployments are permanently and continuously idempotent, but they definitely are not.

The play is clear. Since this is a potential risky move, very few IT admins will try to remove Edge in the first place.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#420

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

criddell wrote: post #141
wkat4242 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use either chrome or edge but why would I use a clone instead of the real thing? I never understood why Microsoft thought cloning chrome was a good thing for adoption. Edge is just chrome now but with some annoying bloat like the coupon pop-ups and pay later scams.

> I never understood why Microsoft thought cloning chrome was a good thing for adoption. It’s all about Electron. There may be a Microsoft contingent that thinks it’s the future or maybe they are just hedging, but for now it’s important for stuff like Teams.

Small correction: the new teams client (currently in preview) uses WebView2 (based on Edge/Chromium), not Electron
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