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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#221

Post by refulgentis »

mrpopo wrote: post #170
dahauns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

Apple blocking iPhone browsers without Webkit (excluding Chrome and Firefox). Android not exactly making it easy to change the default browser for average users either tbh Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1118/

XKCD isn’t relevant to the sentence before, as comic notes, it’s about Apple.

the “Android makes you tap something to change your default browser!” was some FUD that either Brave/DDG stopped spreading because it was generating backlash.

Much like the “you have to confirm you enable sideloading!” alert in Android, it’s not clear what people want otherwise, a confirmation isn’t the same thing as making it difficult.

I wish these things would pass simply because it makes it harder to have the real conversations needed to get things back on track

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#222

Post by josefresco »

thomond wrote: post #42
josefresco wrote: post #13

I don't get the anger, at this point Edge is interchangeable with Chrome. The only thing I "miss" are my saved password and extensions which can be easily imported. Complaining online is an international pastime though.

> at this point Edge is interchangeable with Chrome Then why would MSFT release Edge at all? maybe they should default to Chrome.

Why does Google develop Chrome? Why not just support Chromium?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#223

Post by dehrmann »

mrpopo wrote: post #170
dahauns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

Apple blocking iPhone browsers without Webkit (excluding Chrome and Firefox). Android not exactly making it easy to change the default browser for average users either tbh Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1118/

My theory on this is it has something to do with battery life. I can't think of another reason they'd limit browser engines.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#224

Post by code_runner »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Microsoft’s stock price over the last 10 years has soared consistently. They have a lot of admins at small/medium companies very very willfully and loyally locked in to their ecosystem.

Microsoft does not care if they piss off most of these people because they not the ones signing the contracts and the lock-in is SO BAD that even if they piss off the right people, making any change is way more trouble than they are willing to deal with.

There is an entire side of the tech industry with admins who only want to learn powershell and still think you can’t “lock down” Linux and mac machines.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#225

Post by detaro »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #216
capableweb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an extensive list, but Apple preferring their own apps on iOS is not hyperbole and evident in lots of places. Two examples: In "Find My" their is a "navigate" button for your various things, this will always use Apple Maps instead of giving you the choice. Same with the tapping the "address" field in your contacts list. And if you don't have Apple Maps installed, does it give you any options? No, instead…

I may be wrong, but audio types are standardized, while geo or map ones are not. Meaning that it wouldn’t be much of an issue to open an audio file with anything that isn’t Apple Music, but FindMy would need to support a myriad of map app formats to work as intended.

URL types for geo locations are standardized. And even if they weren't or the standard isn't sufficient (which one could reasonably argue), you are talking about features made by the platform owner. Apple can trivially declare "this is the iOS geo share format, apps intending to share or handle shared geolocations should use this format" and expect the ecosystem to deal with it.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#226

Post by zyx321 »

AraceliHarker wrote: post #86
toyg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is actually the one reacting here. They were effectively forced to let the web be an open field by antitrust cases; Apple and Google took advantage of that to build two walled gardens, which ended up dwarfing MS's own empire. It was inevitable that, sooner or later, MS would have gone "If this behaviour is now allowed, why should we not do it too?" This is just the result of normalizing monopolistic practic…

Simply put, people don't love Edge as much as they love Chrome. The browser bundled with Windows 11 is naturally Edge, but users who use Chrome install Chrome of their own volition, so forcing them to open links in Edge is extremely annoying.

People seem to have forgotten how Chrome captured the desktop market to begin with. For many many years it was effectively almost impossible to download freeware without accidentally installing Chrome. Sites like download.com and even sourceforge wrapped everything in custom installers that would automatically include free trial of an antivirus, maybe some adware, and Google Chrome, unless you were aware and clicked the secret hidden opt-out link that was almost the same color as the background.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#227

Post by code_runner »

jarym wrote: post #108

IT admins have only themselves to blame for choosing Teams in the first place. Yes, it is included in O365 and it makes it a no-brainer as far as additional costs and things go. But then there's the risk that Microsoft leverage their captive and lazy market to foist other undesirable things on users... like this. And crappy news / adverts in Windows 11's 'start menu' replacement. Ready to get voted down on this, but…

> captive and lazy

This is my experience 100%

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#228

Post by josefresco »

AraceliHarker wrote: post #105
josefresco wrote: post #13

I don't get the anger, at this point Edge is interchangeable with Chrome. The only thing I "miss" are my saved password and extensions which can be easily imported. Complaining online is an international pastime though.

For example, Bing Chat is not available without using Edge, right?

I have no problems with MS making Bing Chat a "feature" of Edge.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#229

Post by lelanthran »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

> They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft

How? I mean, how does a degraded experience on android cause people to abandon windows desktops?

I just don't see the connection here: if Google, tomorrow, outright rejected any MSFT software on android phones, how does it hurt windows desktop deployment numbers? Maybe if everyone switched to Mac, but that would kill of android too...

This is what a working monopoly looks like. We've seen before this exactly how much crap users would put up with on the desktop, and still they didn't abandon windows.

There is nothing the mobile market can do that they haven't already tried to take windows market share.

In fact, there is nothing that the mobile world can do to Windows users that is worse than what Microsoft did to them, and yet those users are still chugging along happily paying for Windows every year.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#230

Post by aembleton »

maccard wrote: post #148
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

> They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. I disagree here. Despite me using firefox on my android device and it being set to my default browser, many apps will still open in chrome (usually google apps - maps, gmail, etc) despite me explicitly asking it _not_ to do that. It's als…

Links from Google maps and Gmail open in Firefox for me. I'm on android 13.
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