Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 753 posts

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#181

Post by ourmandave »

em-bee wrote: post #116
modo_mario wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Have they just become Were they ever different tho? I know a lot of people believed the 'MS loves open source' and similar stuff but it always felt like bait to me. They still tried to force trough their shitty open document format, still regularly pull layers of small anticompetitive stuff. Small changes that aren't outrageous enough on their own to cause a reaction or throw out the trust they try to create but eno…

my understanding is that within microsoft there are different factions competing with each other for i don't know what, dominance maybe. it kind of makes sense since microsoft has several different strong products that can stand on their own (unlike google whose main income is from advertising so really all google products subsume to that), and some of these factions may well genuinely love FOSS.

They're FOSS friendly because they don't have a choice.

They have to support linux on Azure, so they're all in. Meaning they're joining boards and steering committees, becoming platinum level donors, and buying github that hosts a lot of open projects.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#182

Post by malermeister »

dahauns wrote: post #143
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

I use a Firefox addon that spoofs the user agent for Google-owned sites so it delivers the Chrome version of things.

Works without any issues and it's a much nicer product experience.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#183

Post by rightbyte »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #51
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

"forced Candy Crush ad tiles in the start menu" is all the answer you need to your questions. I wonder how much money this shameful bottom of the barrel company behaviour makes them.

It probably decreases revenue. Like the Edge "enagement" manipulation with Teams.

Are there managers who has their pay tied to some KPI? I have such a hard time believing there is a from above decision to do all these user hostile changes turning their main product into a BS joke.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#184

Post by yason »

wkat4242 wrote: post #94
AraceliHarker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put, people don't love Edge as much as they love Chrome. The browser bundled with Windows 11 is naturally Edge, but users who use Chrome install Chrome of their own volition, so forcing them to open links in Edge is extremely annoying.

I don't use either chrome or edge but why would I use a clone instead of the real thing? I never understood why Microsoft thought cloning chrome was a good thing for adoption. Edge is just chrome now but with some annoying bloat like the coupon pop-ups and pay later scams.

Writing a browser engine is a lot of unprofitable work just to get to harass your customers with popups, ads, and scams. Especially when you already wrote one and couldn't keep even that in pace with standards and the evolving web technologies.

Taking an existing engine and building a malicious frontend to harass your customers with popups, ads, and scams has way better returns in comparison.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#185

Post by capableweb »

worrycue wrote: post #176
capableweb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a useful point of view if you happen to work at GitHub and you don't really want to wake up to the fact that you actually work for Microsoft now. But for anyone else, everything Microsoft owns is Microsoft, and they'll use the products and properties they owned to further the goal of Microsoft, which is maximizing shareholder profits, just like any other public company.

> just like any other public company Except way more mercenary. Companies compete like boxers in a ring. You win some, you lose some. MS is the boxer who would hit below the belt if no one is looking and will try to main/kill you if they can. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

> maximizing shareholder profits, just like any other public company

Show me one of these big technology companies that doesn't act to benefit their shareholders?

Microsoft is Google is Apple is Amazon. They're all the same internally. The only difference is their optics when you're looking at them as an outsider. But really, they all work toward the same goal, increasing their stock price.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#186

Post by kivihiinlane »

malermeister wrote: post #182
dahauns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

I use a Firefox addon that spoofs the user agent for Google-owned sites so it delivers the Chrome version of things. Works without any issues and it's a much nicer product experience.

What is the name of this addon?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#187

Post by dijit »

roydivision wrote: post #129
jarym wrote: post #108

IT admins have only themselves to blame for choosing Teams in the first place. Yes, it is included in O365 and it makes it a no-brainer as far as additional costs and things go. But then there's the risk that Microsoft leverage their captive and lazy market to foist other undesirable things on users... like this. And crappy news / adverts in Windows 11's 'start menu' replacement. Ready to get voted down on this, but…

In my experience, in any company larger than 500 people at least, the IT admin has little say in the matter. These sorts of decisions are taken higher up, and the admin just has to live with it.

Hell, my company is just 35 people and I'm head of all things tech (CTO) and even I can't get Microsoft out of the company.

It works "good enough" and change is really hard for many people.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#188

Post by commitpizza »

bobmaxup wrote: post #168
commitpizza wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well its great if you love being spied upon, Edge is filled with spyware tools which Microsoft tries to make you enable with dark patterns each time you update windows.

Are there ways to make this tolerable with policy settings or something? https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/microsoft-edge-...

The issue is that it's the way Microsoft conduct business at all. The default should be opt-in not hard to find opt-outs for every patch.

I would say no, there is no way to make it more tolerable unless you run something like shutup10 or https://github.com/TemporalAgent7/awesome-windows-privacy but then again if you care that much you should simply just run Linux because in reality there is no real good solution since spyware is baked right into the product.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#189

Post by IceWreck »

passwordoops wrote: post #104
IceWreck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft apps exist on Android and they're not forced to open links in Chrome on Android. If the user chooses, they can open on Microsoft Edge on Android. The user can set their own browser preference - and Google doesn't force them. Apple doesn't allow other browser engines but it's on them. None of these bug tech corps are in the right here, but MS is being more anti-competitive than most.

I know I'm comparing a turd sandwich to a puke pancake here, but in what way is "Apple doesn't allow other browser engines" less anti-competitive than what MS is doing?

Never said it wasn't, thats why I used Android's example and then also called out Apple.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#190

Post by dathinab »

mrpopo wrote: post #170
dahauns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

Apple blocking iPhone browsers without Webkit (excluding Chrome and Firefox). Android not exactly making it easy to change the default browser for average users either tbh Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1118/

yes on phones this has tradition to a point it started to got legislation involved

but on desktop legislation shut this down, or at least tried, and it wasn't a problem for years

honestly we need a proper "fair platform" legislation, world wide

and focus more on power abuse and free market damaging power dynamics instead of obsessing over the "mono" in monopoly (because with today markets you can have more power then a classical single market monopoly while not being a monopol or even duopoly in any of the many markets you cover, power you can even more efficiently abuse then a monopoly when adding new market to your portfolio...)

Post reply on HN