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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#31

Post by taspeotis »

rmm wrote: post #8

What’s crazy is that edge is actually a really good browser. Some of the features they have wacked on top of chromium are awesome. Especially when deploying it for a small business. It allows for easy integration with azure, profile syncing etc.

Used to be good but they’ve crapped it up with shit like coupons, follow this creator (what the fuck?), the “smart” text selection menu and “rich” link copying.

I don’t set up a new Edge profile often but I have to remember to turn off like 5 or 6 things each time to make it somewhat usable.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#32

Post by peoplefromibiza »

CrampusDestrus wrote: post #26
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only instance of Apple doing that I’m aware of is Not allowing alternative browsers on their most successful platform: iOS also: - EU forced Apple to use USB-C like everybody else - EU is forcing Apple to allow side loading of apps Apple is one of the worst offenders ever when it's about vendor lock in

You might be a few years out of date https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT211336

that's not what you think it is.

Alternative browser engines are still disallowed.

They are a skin on Apple's Webkit

see: https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/07/mozilla_google_apple_...

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#34

Post by IceWreck »

3np wrote: post #9
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Not to give Microsoft an out here but really? The equivalent for this on iOS or Android would be allowing opening links in a different browser and web view engine. The equivalent Microsoft apps on mobile OSs aren't degraded - they aren't even allowed to exist in the first place. Microsoft is bringing the desktop experience in line with mobile here. Doesn't make it less terrible but contrasting Apple and Google as bet…

Microsoft apps exist on Android and they're not forced to open links in Chrome on Android. If the user chooses, they can open on Microsoft Edge on Android. The user can set their own browser preference - and Google doesn't force them.

Apple doesn't allow other browser engines but it's on them.

None of these bug tech corps are in the right here, but MS is being more anti-competitive than most.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#35

Post by Macha »

3np wrote: post #9
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Not to give Microsoft an out here but really? The equivalent for this on iOS or Android would be allowing opening links in a different browser and web view engine. The equivalent Microsoft apps on mobile OSs aren't degraded - they aren't even allowed to exist in the first place. Microsoft is bringing the desktop experience in line with mobile here. Doesn't make it less terrible but contrasting Apple and Google as bet…

The equivalent apps on iOS aren't even allowed, Android allows other browsers (including their browser engines) just fine. Firefox is the only browser to bother though, as most of the chromium wrappers, including edge for android, are happy to just build a skin around the default web view.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#36

Post by supriyo-biswas »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #21
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only instance of Apple doing that I’m aware of is the “Search for (term)” in the terminal’s right click menu always defaulting to Safari. In every other instance, they’ve respected the defaults. Microsoft on the other hands seems to have no boundaries, going as far as injecting ads on Chrome’s homepage[1] promoting their browser. [1] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-is-now-injecting-full-...

> The only instance of Apple doing that I’m aware of is Not allowing alternative browsers on their most successful platform: iOS also: - EU forced Apple to use USB-C like everybody else - EU is forcing Apple to allow side loading of apps Apple is one of the worst offenders ever when it's about vendor lock in

Because one is a clearly declared policy that anyone can look up (even though you, or regulators of a certain country, disagree with it). I’m sure there’d be a lot less outrage if it was Microsoft’s policy that other rendering engines (or browsers) were disallowed, instead of being sneaky and trying to fake error messages, degrading user experiences, and the like.

Further, it could be argued that dynamic code execution, whether through an app downloading additional modules on the file system with the executable bit set, or in memory, with the mmap(PROT_EXEC) syscall opens up potential avenues for abuse, and alternative browsers are an unfortunate collateral damage in such a policy.

Regardless, no action can be justified because another entity is also doing it; it only serves to cheapen the discourse.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#37

Post by toyg »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Microsoft is actually the one reacting here. They were effectively forced to let the web be an open field by antitrust cases; Apple and Google took advantage of that to build two walled gardens, which ended up dwarfing MS's own empire. It was inevitable that, sooner or later, MS would have gone "If this behaviour is now allowed, why should we not do it too?"

This is just the result of normalizing monopolistic practices in the mobile world over 15 years. You can thank Apple and Google for that. If you want something different, call your representatives and ask them to let the hammer fall on all 3.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#38

Post by josefresco »

wheybags wrote: post #18
josefresco wrote: post #13

I don't get the anger, at this point Edge is interchangeable with Chrome. The only thing I "miss" are my saved password and extensions which can be easily imported. Complaining online is an international pastime though.

It's not about the quality of the browser. The user has a setting to choose which browser to use, and they are disregarding it for their own convenience. It's anti-consumer and anti-competitive.

I agree, it's just "more of the same" for me and thankfully Edge isn't terrible like IE 6x etc.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#39

Post by Xeamek »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Google doesn't have nearly as much control over android as microsoft has over windows.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#40

Post by jamespo »

3np wrote: post #9
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Not to give Microsoft an out here but really? The equivalent for this on iOS or Android would be allowing opening links in a different browser and web view engine. The equivalent Microsoft apps on mobile OSs aren't degraded - they aren't even allowed to exist in the first place. Microsoft is bringing the desktop experience in line with mobile here. Doesn't make it less terrible but contrasting Apple and Google as bet…

What web view engine? MS are using chromium
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